So someone started a petition against SB281

[BRONZ]

Hmmmmm Oct. 1st "IS BUY A GUN DAY" in maryland.....I like that.

 

[kalister1]

Do you want to put off the court cases for "more time to buy"?

Yes I do.
When this goes to court it will NOT go our way. Has anyone heard of a FOID card?
Reasonable restrictions on our rights was spoken of by the SCOTUS. When you want to have a large group meet in public, do you have to obtain a PERMIT? If you decide to start a Newspaper do you need a license?
We will not win this in Court. For those that say public opinion will kill us in Court when the referendum fails(We all know it will) it already has in the State House.
Do you expect Maryland to go Shall Issue any time soon?
How are Chicago residents doing with their Handguns?
The Referendum route is the only way the People on our side can have their voices heard, when it goes to the Court it is too late. If the Courts were on our side, we would HAVE Shall Issue.
How many months do you expect it to take for someone to get this License to Buy a Handgun?

 

[Brooklyn]

Yes I do.
When this goes to court it will NOT go our way. Has anyone heard of a FOID card?
Reasonable restrictions on our rights was spoken of by the SCOTUS. When you want to have a large group meet in public, do you have to obtain a PERMIT? If you decide to start a Newspaper do you need a license?
We will not win this in Court. For those that say public opinion will kill us in Court when the referendum fails(We all know it will) it already has in the State House.
Do you expect Maryland to go Shall Issue any time soon?
How are Chicago residents doing with their Handguns?
The Referendum route is the only way the People on our side can have their voices heard, when it goes to the Court it is too late. If the Courts were on our side, we would HAVE Shall Issue.
How many months do you expect it to take for someone to get this License to Buy a Handgun?

Then your best move is to relocate.

Your read of the relevant case law differs from many. This includes the lawyers that will argue the case.


But if you think we will lose just relocate. Much easier and then the law is delayed forever.

 

[iggy]

Then your best move is to relocate.

Your read of the relevant case law differs from many. This includes the lawyers that will argue the case.


But if you think we will lose just relocate. Much easier and then the law is delayed forever.

so now you are encouraging people who disagree with your narrow position to leave the state?

maybe you should go first

 

[kalister1]

Then your best move is to relocate.

Your read of the relevant case law differs from many. This includes the lawyers that will argue the case.


But if you think we will lose just relocate. Much easier and then the law is delayed forever.

Those same lawyers who filed the Shall Issue/May Issue case? I am entitled to my opinion, for now anyway?

All I have heard is "It could have been worse" " We know best"
Sounds Just Like OBummer after his Stimulus bill.

 

[Brooklyn]

Those same lawyers who filed the Shall Issue/May Issue case? I am entitled to my opinion, for now anyway?

All I have heard is "It could have been worse" " We know best"
Sounds Just Like OBummer after his Stimulus bill.

Sure thing. I prefer expert opinion, however. Hope you don't mind.

 

[iggy]

Sure thing. I prefer expert opinion, however. Hope you don't mind.

the state has experts that have come to a different opinion.

I wonder why the experts that are paid by the state have come to a different conclusion than those who were paid by the NRA

 

[Brooklyn]

the state has experts that have come to a different opinion.

I wonder why the experts that are paid by the state have come to a different conclusion than those who were paid by the NRA

I do not.

But you are free to do as you please. But then that's all you ever do, right. Must be frustrating all us lemmings....

Not to worry mom will get his referendum. And he will win...

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Come on guys! This is not informative or helpful. This is a tug of war with a large crevasse between. No one is changing their minds and all I see is contention building through digging in heels and starting to take a turn for the worse.

Agree to disagree and move on.

 

[iggy]

Come on guys! This is not informative or helpful. This is a tug of war with a large crevasse between. No one is changing their minds and all I see is contention building through digging in heels and starting to take a turn for the worse.

Agree to disagree and move on.

what is funny is that one side is saying "we should do everything we can and we should all do", the other side is saying "you are wrong to hold a different opinion" and "you should leave the state"

 

[iggy]

I do not.

But you are free to do as you please. But then that's all you ever do, right. Must be frustrating all us lemmings....

Not to worry mom will get his referendum. And he will win...

you have your tinfoil hat on too tight. MOM doesn't want a referendum. If he did we would already be seeing commercials for it.

BTW, MOM already got his law, he already won.

 

[K.C.Dean]

Who is Sue Payne???

Maybe I missed something, but why does everyone think this is a Pro2A move.

Mabye it's an Anti2A move.

Maybe it's a bunch of Anti-Gunners (AKA: Buttnuggets) trying to get this on the ballot.

I say it before and I'll said it again: Putting this up for a vote is a BAAAAAAAAAD idea.

I was thinking the same thing. I think the NRA know what they are doing so I am with the NRA.

 

[danb]

you have your tinfoil hat on too tight. MOM doesn't want a referendum. If he did we would already be seeing commercials for it.

BTW, MOM already got his law, he already won.

Of course they want a referendum. If they win the referendum by EVEN ONE VOTE they will declare support for the law and press for more. There is zero chance in this state people will overturn SB281 at the polls. The best chance of overturning it is to convince people to throw the whole law out because of fingerprinting, which is the most controversial. Even that is a high hurdle. Unfortunately, most people in this state get fingerprinted for their job, or are transplants from NY or NJ or other liberal bastions where they do fingerprint. This state went something like 2-1 for Obama and Mikulski.

I hear you that you are pessimistic about court chances. Maybe you are right, and I am overly optimistic. Still, the way i see it there is some chance in court vs zero chance at the polls.

ETA: yes, I too think that the referendum is being driven by anti-2a people for all the reasons I mentioned - it strengthens their hand if they win and postpones the court challenges.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

what is funny is that one side is saying "we should do everything we can and we should all do", the other side is saying "you are wrong to hold a different opinion" and "you should leave the state"

now I am going to piss both crowds off (must be a mother of 6 thing to be ok with that )...

Problem with side A: sounds like the folks passing the laws right now. "We gotta do SOMETHING". We need to step back and figure out the RIGHT thing to do. Ya, the petition has to be signed off by June 30. Let the people that organized it, do their thing. They took it on. If you want to sign it, take your time, do your homework. You still have 40 days. Think about this: did they ask you to help?

Problem with side B: sounds like a bunch of people who have made up their minds and don't respect other people's process to arrive at their own conclusions. They came out of the gate that way. A lot of people around here know a lot about guns, etc. but politics is a whole new world.

 

[iggy]

Of course they want a referendum. If they win the referendum by EVEN ONE VOTE they will declare support for the law and press for more. There is zero chance in this state people will overturn SB281 at the polls. The best chance of overturning it is to convince people to throw the whole law out because of fingerprinting, which is the most controversial. Even that is a high hurdle. Unfortunately, most people in this state get fingerprinted for their job, or are transplants from NY or NJ or other liberal bastions where they do fingerprint. This state went something like 2-1 for Obama and Mikulski.

I hear you that you are pessimistic about court chances. Maybe you are right, and I am overly optimistic. Still, the way i see it there is some chance in court vs zero chance at the polls.

ETA: yes, I too think that the referendum is being driven by anti-2a people for all the reasons I mentioned - it strengthens their hand if they win and postpones the court challenges.

The state stands to gain nothing from a referendum. They already have the law, its a done deal. a referendum will do nothing to help the anti gun crowd.

I am not pessimistic about a court case, i am realistic. There is little to no chance that this law gets overturned completly. The only way to do that will be a referendum. IF you choose not to support a referendum you are accepting that some of SB 281 will stand.

I say we need to fight both fights.

 

[Glock_Fireman]

now I am going to piss both crowds off (must be a mother of 6 thing to be ok with that )...

Problem with side A: sounds like the folks passing the laws right now. "We gotta do SOMETHING". We need to step back and figure out the RIGHT thing to do. Ya, the petition has to be signed off by June 30. Let the people that organized it, do their thing. They took it on. If you want to sign it, take your time, do your homework. You still have 40 days. Think about this: did they ask you to help?

Problem with side B: sounds like a bunch of people who have made up their minds and don't respect other people's process to arrive at their own conclusions. They came out of the gate that way. A lot of people around here know a lot about guns, etc. but politics is a whole new world.

Nice statement

 

[MDFF2008]

now I am going to piss both crowds off (must be a mother of 6 thing to be ok with that )...

Problem with side A: sounds like the folks passing the laws right now. "We gotta do SOMETHING". We need to step back and figure out the RIGHT thing to do. Ya, the petition has to be signed off by June 30. Let the people that organized it, do their thing. They took it on. If you want to sign it, take your time, do your homework. You still have 40 days. Think about this: did they ask you to help?

Problem with side B: sounds like a bunch of people who have made up their minds and don't respect other people's process to arrive at their own conclusions. They came out of the gate that way. A lot of people around here know a lot about guns, etc. but politics is a whole new world.

I can agree with that.

I think one of the issues is that a lot of the anti-referendum people are the people who are very involved in 2A and know that despite it being ill-advised, will fall on them to clean up the mess if it goes forward as the leader, McDonnough has said he'll drop it like a hot potato.

 

[Glock_Fireman]

The state stands to gain nothing from a referendum. They already have the law, its a done deal. a referendum will do nothing to help the anti gun crowd.

I am not pessimistic about a court case, i am realistic. There is little to no chance that this law gets overturned completly. The only way to do that will be a referendum. IF you choose not to support a referendum you are accepting that some of SB 281 will stand.

I say we need to fight both fights.

Here is my .02 they do have a lot to gain by the referendum if we lose at the polls because when it goes to court they can say look the state voted this way and we will get beaten over the head with it for years!!

 

[smores]

From the Declaration of Independence. Just so their is no further misinformation on the subject.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. "

You will not find unalienable rights in the Constitution.

However, The Bill of Rights gives the people certain rights. To amend the Constitution requires that the States ratify any amendment. This does not have to be done by a "popular" vote. It can be done within the states legislatures.

In this state we're screwed!

How does the right to "life" exclude one from defending it from being taken?

 

[iggy]

Here is my .02 they do have a lot to gain by the referendum if we lose at the polls because when it goes to court they can say look the state voted this way and we will get beaten over the head with it for years!!

thats just not the way court rulings work. I have NEVER read an argument in a constitutional case where the lawyers referenced popular opinion, and i have never read a decision that indicated popular opinion was part of the decision making process.

BTW, a similar, yet equally falacious argument would be that when this goes to court the state could hold up the fact that this didn't go to referendum to show that marylanders agree with the law. Otherwise maryland voters would have petitioned for a referendum. I dont see losing as any worse than not even trying (being seen as not even having the support for the petition).