So someone started a petition against SB281

[Glock_Fireman]

thats just not the way court rulings work. I have NEVER read an argument in a constitutional case where the lawyers referenced popular opinion, and i have never read a decision that indicated popular opinion was part of the decision making process.

BTW, a similar, yet equally falacious argument would be that when this goes to court the state could hold up the fact that this didn't go to referendum to show that marylanders agree with the law. Otherwise maryland voters would have petitioned for a referendum. I dont see losing as any worse than not even trying (being seen as not even having the support for the petition).

You got a point but look at how they listened to us with the bill and they are already in prep for the referendum. They already have the commercial made so they are expecting it that seems very fishy to me already. but like I said that is my .02 and take it for what it is worth I'm not here to fight I'm just here stating my opinion and what I have seen!! And everyone is entitled to their own opinion and POV.

 

[Brooklyn]

now I am going to piss both crowds off (must be a mother of 6 thing to be ok with that )...

Problem with side A: sounds like the folks passing the laws right now. "We gotta do SOMETHING". We need to step back and figure out the RIGHT thing to do. Ya, the petition has to be signed off by June 30. Let the people that organized it, do their thing. They took it on. If you want to sign it, take your time, do your homework. You still have 40 days. Think about this: did they ask you to help?

Problem with side B: sounds like a bunch of people who have made up their minds and don't respect other people's process to arrive at their own conclusions. They came out of the gate that way. A lot of people around here know a lot about guns, etc. but politics is a whole new world.

Here is something to consider

What if mom does not want the law. Just the issue. To rally his base ,raise funds and get on TV.

He can't do that if he just wins and goes home.

Now if all he wanted was a good law. It was a done deal. All he has to do was be flexible and let some of our wins stick.. He did not.

He pissed of his own people to make sure it was a law that we would have to fight. He needs the fight. He needs it to keep his scandels off the front page. He needs it to force his own party inline. You know that NRA is the boggy man nonsense-- who is that directed at Republicans? Us? No the Democrats that think of going off the reservation.. Its a threat to pull their certified I care liberal good guy card. Its not targeting us.. We don't give a . .

Now think further ...
Fights in court are quiet. No story for months. Nothing to use to rally the base. Nothing to talk about on TV. Plus the money advantage is neteralised.

Judges pride themselves on think rationally ,I mean not like mathematians but not like polititians either. Court is not good for him.

He does not give a shit about the law --- he needs to keep this issue alive all the way to 2016. Referendum helps him do that win or lose. He will get a lot of free money for that alone. But not if we wins. Once you win the money stops. He needs the fight.

That's the deal.

I don't think this coming from anti 2a. I think we are quite capable of doing this to ourselves. That's what pisses me off.

They don't even need to be good to have chase our tail.

Now I wish we had more face to face time to do this sort of gaming it out. All would benefit.

Our only real advantage is that they still think we don't really know what their up to. I guess that's gone now.. Or maybe not. I think we can still count a few people to keep up the show that we are falling apart...

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Here is something to consider

What if mom does not want the law. Just the issue. To rally his base ,raise funds and get on TV.

He can't do that if he just wins and goes home.

Now if all he wanted was a good law. It was a done deal. All he has to do was be flexible and let some of our wins stick.. He did not.

He pissed of his own people to make sure it was a law that we would have to fight. He needs the fight. He needs it to keep his scandels off the front page. He needs it to force his own party inline. You know that NRA is the boggy man nonsense-- who is that directed at Republicans? Us? No the Democrats that think of going off the reservation.. Its a threat to pull their certified I care liberal good guy card. Its not targeting us.. We don't give a . .

Now think further ...
Fights in court are quiet. No story for months. Nothing to use to rally the base. Nothing to talk about on TV. Plus the money advantage is neteralised.

Judges pride themselves on think rationally ,I mean not like mathematians but not like polititians either. Court is not good for him.

He does not give a shit about the law --- he needs to keep this issue alive all the way to 2016. Referendum helps him do that win or lose. He will get a lot of free money for that alone. But not if we wins. Once you win the money stops. He needs the fight.

That's the deal.

I don't think this coming from anti 2a. I think we are quite capable of doing this to ourselves. That's what pisses me off.

They don't even need to be good to have chase our tail.

Now I wish we had more face to face time to do this sort of gaming it out. All would benefit.

Our only real advantage is that they still think we don't really know what their up to. I guess that's gone now.. Or maybe not. I think we can still count a few people to keep up the show that we are falling apart...

Here ya go.

 

[iggy]

Here is something to consider

What if mom does not want the law. Just the issue. To rally his base ,raise funds and get on TV.

He can't do that if he just wins and goes home.

Now if all he wanted was a good law. It was a done deal. All he has to do was be flexible and let some of our wins stick.. He did not.

He pissed of his own people to make sure it was a law that we would have to fight. He needs the fight. He needs it to keep his scandels off the front page. He needs it to force his own party inline. You know that NRA is the boggy man nonsense-- who is that directed at Republicans? Us? No the Democrats that think of going off the reservation.. Its a threat to pull their certified I care liberal good guy card. Its not targeting us.. We don't give a . .

Now think further ...
Fights in court are quiet. No story for months. Nothing to use to rally the base. Nothing to talk about on TV. Plus the money advantage is neteralised.

Judges pride themselves on think rationally ,I mean not like mathematians but not like polititians either. Court is not good for him.

He does not give a shit about the law --- he needs to keep this issue alive all the way to 2016. Referendum helps him do that win or lose. He will get a lot of free money for that alone. But not if we wins. Once you win the money stops. He needs the fight.

That's the deal.

I don't think this coming from anti 2a. I think we are quite capable of doing this to ourselves. That's what pisses me off.

They don't even need to be good to have chase our tail.

Now I wish we had more face to face time to do this sort of gaming it out. All would benefit.

Our only real advantage is that they still think we don't really know what their up to. I guess that's gone now.. Or maybe not. I think we can still count a few people to keep up the show that we are falling apart...

not to blow the lid off your conspiracy theory but a referendum will be done and over in 2014. Thats a full 2 years before any elections in 2016.

 

[Brooklyn]

not to blow the lid off your conspiracy theory but a referendum will be done and over in 2014. Thats a full 2 years before any elections in 2016.

Now iggy ,I thought you promised to end our interaction.

If you think about it thats 2 less years than he needs to cover now.

Then he has another victory dance .
Then does the talk show circuit .

Then he announces and points to SB 281 . since it has not gone into effect yet due to the litigation he will talk about NRA robots and how they can be beaten this dispite the fact that the NRA ran from this as fast as they could. Guess how many reporters will point that out oh fox news maybe..

So the did not go into effect yet so we can't point to the stunning lack of success at fighting crime. And every shooting in Baltimore will be placed on the blood stained hands of the NRA by the media.And he will go on TV every time..

But I am just a naive fool you know. None of this will happen. And of course those who make a living manipulating the press could never anticipate this. Its so unprecedented.

No you see much more clearly than all of us tin hat types.

Regards,

 

[iggy]

Now iggy ,I thought you promised to end our interaction.

If you think about it thats 2 less years than he needs to cover now.

Then he has another victory dance .
Then does the talk show circuit .

Then he announces and points to SB 281 . since it has not gone into effect yet due to the litigation he will talk about NRA robots and how they can be beaten this dispite the fact that the NRA ran from this as fast as they could. Guess how many reporters will point that out oh fox news maybe..

So the did not go into effect yet so we can't point to the stunning lack of success at fighting crime. And every shooting in Baltimore will be placed on the blood stained hands of the NRA by the media.And he will go on TV every time..

But I am just a naive fool you know. None of this will happen. And of course those who make a living manipulating the press could never anticipate this. Its so unprecedented.

No you see much more clearly than all of us tin hat types.

Regards,

Actually you were the one who claimed you were done with the interaction. I was just hoping you could keep your word.

So now you have an automatic stay for the litigation

You got one thing right in your post, You are a tinfoil hat wearer

 

[Brooklyn]

Actually you were the one who claimed you were done with the interaction. I was just hoping you could keep your word.

So now you have an automatic stay for the litigation

You got one thing right in your post, You are a tinfoil hat wearer

OK but I still don't think the NRA lawyers are plotting against us.

So I guess I just need more practice..

 

[iggy]

OK but I still don't think the NRA lawyers are plotting against us.

So I guess I just need more practice..

I never said the NRA lawyers are plotting against us, just that they don't represent us.

 

[madness3120]

NRA released a statement saying they will file there lawsuite once the law goes into effect.

 

[Bagpiperer]

The referendum is a waste of money; we aren't going to win, and it will galvanize the grabbers. If people were more concerned about protecting the rights of future Marylanders, we wouldn't be having this debate: thirteen more months to buy ARs means nothing to someone who won't be 21 by then.

We may get an injunction to prevent implementation of the law until the courts have done with the case. The fact that the Maryland State Police have not yet laid the groundwork for licensing will make that more likely (as the license to purchase will be a de facto ban during that period). Give them another year to get their business together, and that argument will disappear.

Bottom line: the referendum campaign will be full of sound and fury, and accomplish nothing. Our money and effort would be better spent elsewhere, especially as no one has yet articulated a plan for winning. I am more inclined to trust the opinion of the NRA than "organizers" who are poised to drop this effort like a hot potato.

 

[MDFF2008]

Actually, he can benefit from it going just until 2014. As soon as the mid-term election is over, the presidential election will begin.

He can use the failure of the referendum to kick start his campaign.

 

[OnTarget]

I posted this on the other SB281 Delegate Pat McDonough Petition Referendum thread, but some might not have seen it. Here it is:

This EVENT is posted on the front page of www.freestatepetitions.com website if you are interested:

Blaine Young will be doing his WFMD Mid-Maryland radio show this Friday, May 24, at the Route 40 Shell station in Frederick from 3:00-6:00pm. This will be a petition signing event!
Sheriff Chuck Jenkins, Delegate Pat McDonough and Sue Payne will join Blaine in collecting signatures. Please stop by to sign the petition and show your support! Route 40 Shell is located at 1275 West Patrick Street, Frederick, MD.

Good opportunity to get signed up!

 

[Merlin]

NRA released a statement saying they will file there lawsuite once the law goes into effect.

I think it has something to do with the fact that we are not victims to the new law until we are being effected by the new law.

 

[teratos]

I think it has something to do with the fact that we are not victims to the new law until we are being effected by the new law.

Correct.

 

[madness3120]

So they wont be filing anytime soon

 

[teratos]

So they wont be filing anytime soon

They can't file until the law goes into effect.

 

[gmhowell]

Watching these discussions about lawsuit vs. referendum is like watching Clark Griswald navigate London traffic.

 

[BRONZ]

Well. I signed tonight at the Carroll County 2nd Amendment Preservation rally.

Sorry but the tables were full of people signing.

 

[Brooklyn]

Well. I signed tonight at the Carroll County 2nd Amendment Preservation rally.

Sorry but the tables were full of people signing.

If you think it was the right thing to do then no need to be sorry.

 

[BRONZ]

If you think it was the right thing to do then no need to be sorry.

Oh Im not sorry I sign, just to those you feel lawsuit is the better option. Last night Carroll County put itself on the map as far as gun right preservation.

I cant get past waiting for the law to go in to effect. With all the recent rulings for gun rights what has really changed. Our law is ruled un-Contsitutional but still we cant carry. DC's law ruled un-Contsitutional yet being able to purchase a handgun is like winning the lottery.

To me referendum was the best course.