MSP Got one... Instructor caught cutting corners, permits invalidated.

[newmuzzleloader]

Yes but if you have portal access or remember your permit number they can call the permit number in and get all the other info they may need. Hell the application also has your soundex number on it to help with validation…

See Below

They don't want to look you up, they want to lock you up and take away your W/C permit. This is Maryland, a right exercised is a right that should be taken away!

 

[LAC_MD]

See Below

Totally agree just seeing how the statute is written speaks volumes.

 

[swinokur]

Apparently the statute has not kept up with the technology

The Gun Center was started because of FSA 2013

 

[Dr.Duct_Mossburg]

This is how I started my morning off... This should make for a fun week.

 

[Brychan]

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This is how I started my morning off... This should make for a fun week.

That sucks, did they state a reason for revoking?

 

[Biggfoot44]

And last night I spoke with a W&C holder who had taken a one day ( 8-ish to 5-ish ) class from PTP .

 

[Zaicran]

And last night I spoke with a W&C holder who had taken a one day ( 8-ish to 5-ish ) class from PTP .

I assume that 1 day was for the W&C or was it just for HQL?

 

[Biggfoot44]

W&C according to them , and I asked about that . Didn't shake her down to look in her wallet to confirm . (She had a PTP sweatshirt which first started rhe convo with my ( gun owning)guitar buddy .

 

[Bertfish]

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This is how I started my morning off... This should make for a fun week.

Ok so what happened

Instructor cut corners?

You do something stupid?

 

[Zaicran]

W&C according to them , and I asked about that . Didn't shake her down to look in her wallet to confirm . (She had a PTP sweatshirt which first started rhe convo with my ( gun owning)guitar buddy .

Not surprised with PTP.

 

[Inigoes]

Could this be a case of W&C students suing the MSP for the revocations? This would seem to be an avenue to get the 16 hour requirement dropped.

It is not the students fault the instructor(s) screwed up.

 

[Zaicran]

Could this be a case of W&C students suing the MSP for the revocations? This would seem to be an avenue to get the 16 hour requirement dropped.

No. You signed a form score card saying you got 16 hours. Falsifying a document anyone? Could it be perjury?

 

[Threeband]

What kind of a dim-bulb would strap up and not make sure that their card is also on them? That's like hopping behind the wheel of a car and not having your drivers license.

You never accidentally left your wallet at home? I've done it several times.

Getting pulled over without your license is not a big deal. They can quickly establish your identity, confirm you have a valid license, and send you on your way with, I suppose, an additional fine.

(edit- yup, $50 fine. https://criminallawyermaryland.net/...t Are The Penalties for,payment of a $50 fine. )


Getting caught carrying without your permit is a VERY serious thing in Maryland. I think it's a felony.

This is a very stupid law and should be revoked.

It's right up there with the prohibition on carrying in State Parks, in my opinion.

 

[Bertfish]

No. You signed a form score card saying you got 16 hours. Falsifying a document anyone? Could it be perjury?

Not if you completed it and then started cutting corners later

 

[Garet Jax]

My friend and I signed up for an NRA CCW class. I want my NRA CCW instructor designation and this course is the pre-req. The instructor ensured the whole class we would meet all requirements for W&C. We started at 9am yesterday. I asked him when we would be finishing - he said 4pm so I said that means we're going to 6pm tomorrow night?

He of course said no. I pointed out that we wouldn't be getting what we need for for MD's W&C class if we didn't have a full 16 hours. He of course disagreed. I wasn't going to argue ad nauseam with him so dropped it. The class let out at 3pm yesterday and doesn't start until 2pm today. The absolute most we're going to get is 10 hours. I pulled up the legislation to show him, but he wasn't interested.

Now I already have my W&C (I am just trying to check an NRA box for the CCW instructor's cert), but my friend doesn't. I told him not to submit the application from this course. I would teach him for 16 hours for free to get him what he needs. We'll see what my friend decides to do.

 

[Garet Jax]

Not if you completed it and then started cutting corners later

Filling out the form isn't the fraud. Submitting the application with a form that is knowingly false is. Either way you're splitting hairs and I doubt MD will agree with you.

 

[Bertfish]

Filling out the form isn't the fraud. Submitting the application with a form that is knowingly false is. Either way you're splitting hairs and I doubt MD will agree with you.

Scenario

W&C instructor teaches a true 16 hours. You sign on the dotted line and are given a permit.

W&C instructor later on decides fvck it I want to get out of here and teaches 12 hours. Someone else signs on the dotted line and is given a permit.

MSP plant catches the instructor.

You committed no perjury, the other guy did. But you both seem likely to lose the permit if the instructor is caught.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Students ( who are aware) could demand refund/ file consumer complaint/ sue the Instructor for not providing what they paid for i.e. class of legally required duration .

As far as eliminating/ decreasing the 16hrs , not gonna happen . The Dems are wanting to INcrease the training requirements , not decrease .

 

[Garet Jax]

Scenario

W&C instructor teaches a true 16 hours. You sign on the dotted line and are given a permit.

W&C instructor later on decides fvck it I want to get out of here and teaches 12 hours. Someone else signs on the dotted line and is given a permit.

MSP plant catches the instructor.

You committed no perjury, the other guy did. But you both seem likely to lose the permit if the instructor is caught.

Agreed. Sorry misunderstood your scenario. I thought you were saying you signed the form at the start of the class truly believing it would be 16 hours. That way when the class was only 10 hours you hadn't committed a fraud.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Filling out the form isn't the fraud. Submitting the application with a form that is knowingly false is.

I suppose if the Instructor's certification with MSP had expired or something , the students couldn't know . But the general public can / can reasonably be expected to be able to read a watch , and tell 16hrs from 4, 8 , 10 , 12hrs .

Yeah , yeah . 1 on 1 , or small group of knowledgeable shooters , the required material and qual can be done in 6 hrs or less . It's not about learning , it's about Infringement .

( The above paragraph is describing MGA's motivation , and not a poke at the various Instructors who on their own volition present training far beyond MSP requirements . Students so inclined should by all means seek these Instructors on purpose .)