How to kill Bambi with a .223 Ar

[Russ D]

I have an Uncle who is hunting with a .204 Ruger this year...legal? yes, ideal? nope...there is a difference

Are you sure a .204 generates legal ME? I don't see how it can.

 

[WSM]

It can if it is in PA

 

[WSM]

General Statewide Seasons: 1) Manually operated centerfire rifles,
handguns and shotguns with all lead bullet or ball, or a bullet designed
to expand on impact;

Unlawful Firearms & Devices: 1) Automatic and semi-automatic
(autoloading) rifles and handguns; 2) air or gas operated rifles and
handguns.

 

[Russ D]

I sure hope he plans on handloading a bullet that can penetrate. I'm not aware of a factory load that will even penetrate a deer's hide. Those little 20 cal. varmint bullets will explode on impact.

 

[Russ D]

I just looked and I can't find a single factory load for a bullet designed to hunt deer with. There is a big difference between what he is doing and what I plan to do.

 

[WSM]

32 grain V-Max bullet in the .204 Ruger claim a MV of 4225 fps and muzzle energy (ME) of 1308 ft. lbs...it's legal even in MD

 

[WSM]

I aint sayin...I'm just sayin

 

[Russ D]

Got ya on the legality, but does he understand how bullets are constructed and why those bullets aren't designed for use on deer sized game?

 

[clandestine]

I sure hope he plans on handloading a bullet that can penetrate. I'm not aware of a factory load that will even penetrate a deer's hide. Those little 20 cal. varmint bullets will explode on impact.

.204 drop deers like a sack of potatoes. I would have video if the guys allowed it. Factory .204 Hornady Loads too.

 

[Russ D]

.204 drop deers like a sack of potatoes. I would have video if the guys allowed it.

With what bullets?

 

[clandestine]

With what bullets?

30GR and 40 GR .204 Factory Hornady, not sure of the legality but they work, and work well.

Like I said the .22 L.R. also will stop a large Deer, one shot if done right. Its about using an accurate partform with a skilled trigger puller. I would prefer to use a small bore and accurate rifle to make a soild well palced hit, than handicap myself with a "huge bullet" hoping to hit close and cause tons of damage. This is coming from a big fan of .30 caliber Weapon Systems too.

Most small calibers get a bad rap because people simply cant shoot or have a bad Weapon System (Innacurate).

Just my Humble Opinion.

 

[Russ D]

I agree to a point but how does a bullet desinged to explode on impact and not penetrate get through tough hide to reach the vitals?

 

[clandestine]

I agree to a point but how does a bullet desinged to explode on impact and not penetrate get through tough hide to reach the vitals?

It punches thru the Deer Hide just fine (Usually about (11"-18"). Neck Shots go through, Torso Shots dont always exit. Head shots penetrate the skull too, and sometimes make an exit wound depending on the shot angle. Some even exit pretty "nastily" (If thats even a word?).

I have seen the 5.7 do some nasty damage too. Theres lots of nay sayers about that round too. Hand me a PS90, or FiveseveN and I could, if it were legal, have 50 dead deer with the PS90 and 10-15 Dead Deer with the FiveseveN (I certainly make poor shots with the pistol, thus the lower kill rate).

 

[Russ D]

I would just worry about hitting a shoulder and not getting any penetration after that. then you have a 3 legged deer running around. Thats why I like the Barnes bullet. It would go through both shoulders and leave a huge wound channel.

 

[...]

It can if it is in PA

we are not idiots, everyone knows bullets fly faster and hit harding in PA.

 

[Grampa G]

Talking about minimum standards, my old man hunted with a Savage 99 chambered in 22 High Power which had something like 1250 ft.lbs. of energy. A neck shot would drop a deer in its tracks.

I don't recommend it but have seen what it can do and as long as it's legal so what. Just like any other shooting situation, one must know their limitations.

 

[Russ D]

Glad the cabin fever mess got washed away. Everynoe gets an opinion no reason to argue about it. Agree or disagree but bring some valid point and let the discussion play itself out.

 

[WSM]

Since we already hijacked the thread:

1. Russ my Uncle is an avid reloader and does pay attention to bullet specs. He just considers anything over .22 diameter bullet to be "lacking" in the fun department when shooting deer. .22-250 has been his choice weapon for years now and he has made some incredible 300-400 yard shots with it. It is not forgiving and a small puff of wind is the difference between heart and gut.

2. I was chatting with my cousin on facebook and we were talking about my future plans for a double AR build. I quote "Why do you want one? You can't even hunt with it!." WELCOME TO PA Obviously not everyone in PA feels the same way but enough hunters are "traditionalist" enough to never even really consider letting semi-auto rifles in on the hunting regs. The first time I heard it even mentioned about hunting with AR's it left me scratching my head and grabbing my MD hunting regs book lol.

3. Obviously there is concrete evidence to suggest a .223 can kill a deer. Whatever gets the job done, gets the job done. I just don't think that given environmental variables that it is an "ideal" caliber but then again I get scoffed at around Elk Neck for carrying a .270 WSM, guys asking me why I need so much firepower and that it might not be "safe" to shoot it in the woods lol. To each his own.

 

[WSM]

and to BlackBart: Shame on you for going from intelligent conversation to trolling.

 

[WSM]

Seeing how my SHTF gun is going to be an AR I'd love to see your full load data Russ. I want to keep some hunting loads on hand for the "just in case". One gun to rule them all but need more than one load for it