How to kill Bambi with a .223 Ar

[Treeguy]

Glad to hear that. Still think the .22-250 or .223 is to light for a deer, but your right its your choice i guess. Im sure if you hit the x the deer will go down sooner or later.

 

[WSM]

Glad to hear that. Still think the .22-250 or .223 is to light for a deer, but your right its your choice i guess. Im sure if you hit the x the deer will go down sooner or later.

I try to stay out of these conversations but I agree that .22 bullets are not the most ideal choice for deer sized game. Doesn't matter how fast it's going you still don't have room for error with a bullet that small.

 

[kstone803]

The worst bullet performanc eI ever experienced was with a 30/06 160 gr(core LokT). I shot a 120# 8 pointer through both lungs at about 60 yards. The bullet failed to expand. The entry and exit wounds were very minimal as was blood loss. The deer rand 600 yards through streams and up a hillside before bedding down and suffocating. The shot was exactly where I was aiming the bullet just failed to do its job. It's not always about caliber or muzzle energy. Bullet performance plays a huge role here also.

Every whitetail I have ever shot was with Remington Core-Lokt's with .243, .270, and .30-06, and the farthest I ever had one run was this year and it was only about 30 yds. I have some of the triple shocks on order in .277 and can't wait to shoot a deer with em, as I have heard nothing but good things. IN the meantime I think I will shoot some groundhogs with em this summer and see what happens.

 

[shrpshtrjoe]

As stated Shot placement is important with any caliber. Bullet choice is critical with smaller Calibers. A Barnes TSX 55grain through 70 grain will HAMMER deer. Put the bullet in the lungs and that deer is dead. I killed three deer this year with the 62 grain TSX in my AR and not one went 60 yards watched all of them drop. Sure there are better caliber choices but the 223 with proper bullet and used with in its limits will take deer cleanly.
Joe

 

[teratos]

I like shootin deer with 196 grains of 8mm Mauser API, carterizes the wound as it passes through

Why would you want to cauterize the wound? Isn't the cause of death usualy blood filling the lungs? If you miss the heart and great vessels and you cauterize the wound they will die of a tension pnuemothorax....a mile away. Not trying to be a tool, just curious.

 

[BlackBart]

Question is WHY shoot it with any 22 caliber? A .22 is NOT a deer round in any capacity so why wound it? Will it kill it? Will a .22 LR or even a .17? ......Sure, eventually but not as sure as a "deer cartridge" which IMO starts at .24 cal.

 

[Russ D]

Question is WHY shoot it with any 22 caliber? A .22 is NOT a deer round in any capacity so why wound it? Will it kill it? Will a .22 LR or even a .17? ......Sure, eventually but not as sure as a "deer cartridge" which IMO starts at .24 cal.

What I am using is substantially more powerful than a .22lr. Just because you choose not to use it does not mean it is NOT a deer round. It's legal and very effective when used correctly.

 

[BlackBart]

What I am using is substantially more powerful than a .22lr. Just because you choose not to use it does not mean it is NOT a deer round. It's legal and very effective when used correctly.

Whatever, if they made a .17 legal does that make it a deer round? Shooting something marginally larger than a BB at 300 yards compounds the problem even more. If memory serves me right it's been fairly recent that they OKed it for deer. Shooting peas at large game animals legally is a relatively new phenomenon.
My OPINION thinks it's ******** for deer, your OPINION differs. That being said, to each his own.

 

[13mogul]

.30 cal minimum for deer. I'm sure smaller rounds will work, but when I hunt I want the round to do the work, not me (i.e. tracking to kingdom come.) I actually prefer 12ga slugs anyway, good out to 100yds+ with my 870. Like to see them just drop.

 

[BlackBart]

My point exactly, tho a .270 is quite devastating as well. Using 12ga slugs is by far the quickest and most lethal kills I've ever made but there is something about a "DEER RIFLE" that puts magic in the air.

 

[Russ D]

Whatever, if they made a .17 legal does that make it a deer round? Shooting something marginally larger than a BB at 300 yards compounds the problem even more. If memory serves me right it's been fairly recent that they OKed it for deer. Shooting peas at large game animals legally is a relatively new phenomenon.
My OPINION thinks it's ******** for deer, your OPINION differs. That being said, to each his own.

I'm shooting a 70 grain bullet that was designed to both hold 100% weight retention and reliably expand at all velocities, at 2900 fps. This is a little different than a .17 or a pea shooter. According to you a .243 is acceptible. Terminal ballistics between this and a .243 IMHO wouldn't be very different.

 

[BlackBart]

I'm shooting a 70 grain bullet that was designed to both hold 100% weight retention and reliably expand at all velocities, at 2900 fps. This is a little different than a .17 or a pea shooter. According to you a .243 is acceptible. Terminal ballistics between this and a .243 IMHO wouldn't be very different.

And I said early on that particular bullet it would have a hell of a ballistics coefficient which is good but a deer bullet it doesn't necessary make. The start of a "deer bullet/round" has to "start" somewhere and IMO it isn't a .22. It's just flat out too small IMO when anything larger within reason is just BETTER. A .243 was designed as a hunting cartridge and it does well. A 06 even better from what I've witnessed first hand. A .22 doesn't have the hydrostatic shock or wound channel of say a .30, facts are facts.

Keep playing with it, that's your pleasure all things have their purpose. Don't be so thin skinned if someone presents a differing view.

 

[Splitter]

A total non-hunter here asking a stupid question:

If you are under 100yds with a scope on a rifle that allows you to place your shot with an inch of the bull, why not shoot the thing in the head and drop it right there? Seems like a very humane way to kill a deer and if you are not going to keep it as a trophy, what's the harm?

A friend told me a story about one of his bad shots that happened to catch the deer in the head with an 8mm. Apparently, he blew it's brains out and it dropped like a stone. Seems if you could do it on purpose there would be no tracking.

Just curious, I have no idea.

Splitter

 

[Bigdtc]

A total non-hunter here asking a stupid question:

If you are under 100yds with a scope on a rifle that allows you to place your shot with an inch of the bull, why not shoot the thing in the head and drop it right there? Seems like a very humane way to kill a deer and if you are not going to keep it as a trophy, what's the harm?

A friend told me a story about one of his bad shots that happened to catch the deer in the head with an 8mm. Apparently, he blew it's brains out and it dropped like a stone. Seems if you could do it on purpose there would be no tracking.

Just curious, I have no idea.

Splitter

Some people do just that. It is an incredibly difficult shot to place if thier not exactly straight on or 90 degrees to you at any range. Add in some "buck fever" and it gets to be even worse. Some make neck shots, and swear by them too. It is a little more forgiving shot then the headshot and will drop them where they stand, I've seen it. The "standard" chest shot offers a far larger target then either and is almost always lethal. Another reason for not taking headshots would be for the pics after..lol

 

[davelenard]

A total non-hunter here asking a stupid question:

If you are under 100yds with a scope on a rifle that allows you to place your shot with an inch of the bull, why not shoot the thing in the head and drop it right there? Seems like a very humane way to kill a deer and if you are not going to keep it as a trophy, what's the harm?

A friend told me a story about one of his bad shots that happened to catch the deer in the head with an 8mm. Apparently, he blew it's brains out and it dropped like a stone. Seems if you could do it on purpose there would be no tracking.

Just curious, I have no idea.

Splitter

Unless you hit nervous tissue (brain, spinal column) there is a good chance you're going to give the deer a slow death, blow out it's jaw/nostrils, knock out an eye. He might not die from the shot but will from starvation, or embarassement from all the other reindeer laughing at his funny looks . Especially if you get buck fever. It's much more humane to send it thru the boiler, a shot thru the heart and he's not going anywhere, a shot thru the lungs and he's not going far. A brain/spinal column shot will drop a deer, but if you miss, I hope you feel remorse.

 

[Tractor Boy]

Why would you want to cauterize the wound? Isn't the cause of death usualy blood filling the lungs? If you miss the heart and great vessels and you cauterize the wound they will die of a tension pnuemothorax....a mile away. Not trying to be a tool, just curious.

lol, its cool, I was being sarcastic..... I use Prvi Partisan 196 grain SPBT and they work great..... no API for deer hunting, only squirrels, love to watch em light up!

 

[HardHatMan]

Unless you hit nervous tissue (brain, spinal column) there is a good chance you're going to give the deer a slow death, blow out it's jaw/nostrils, knock out an eye. He might not die from the shot but will from starvation, or embarassement from all the other reindeer laughing at his funny looks . Especially if you get buck fever. It's much more humane to send it thru the boiler, a shot thru the heart and he's not going anywhere, a shot thru the lungs and he's not going far. A brain/spinal column shot will drop a deer, but if you miss, I hope you feel remorse.

I agree. If you have to think twice about taking a shot, then don't take it. I mostly bow hunt and I have some friends who refuse to bow hunt b/c they think it's not humane. But then they will take a deer at 200 yards with a .30-06 lol.

 

[boothdoc]

Boiler and put them down. I dont do head shots if I can see the whole deer. I don't take a shot unless I casn see the whole deer. I find hunting to be an awesome rush of emotions mixed with patience tolerance and weather conditions. Ethics must rule the roost though!

 

[Russ D]

And I said early on that particular bullet it would have a hell of a ballistics coefficient which is good but a deer bullet it doesn't necessary make. The start of a "deer bullet/round" has to "start" somewhere and IMO it isn't a .22. It's just flat out too small IMO when anything larger within reason is just BETTER. A .243 was designed as a hunting cartridge and it does well. A 06 even better from what I've witnessed first hand. A .22 doesn't have the hydrostatic shock or wound channel of say a .30, facts are facts.

Keep playing with it, that's your pleasure all things have their purpose. Don't be so thin skinned if someone presents a differing view.

I'm not thin skinned at all. Hell I'm not even sure I'm sold on the idea yet as I have no first hand experience. I do have a good bit of research as well as some reputable first hand experience that's convinced me to atleast get this far. For the record my deer gun is a .308. I loaded these for my father who asked if the Ar I built for him could be loaded to legally hunt deer. Since that initial request I have made the ammo and decided I'd also give it a try. My whole reason for making this post was to spark a good debate.

 

[Russ D]

As stated Shot placement is important with any caliber. Bullet choice is critical with smaller Calibers. A Barnes TSX 55grain through 70 grain will HAMMER deer. Put the bullet in the lungs and that deer is dead. I killed three deer this year with the 62 grain TSX in my AR and not one went 60 yards watched all of them drop. Sure there are better caliber choices but the 223 with proper bullet and used with in its limits will take deer cleanly.
Joe

How come noone has even mentioned or tried to dispute Shrpshtrjoe's first hand experience? Just because a bullet starts out at .22 diameter does not mean that it does not create a much larger wound channel after initial expansion. A Barnes TSX 70 grain bullet has the design to open up on impact and create a larger wound channel on a deer than a bullet of higher caliber but lesser design. I've seen deer shot with these bullets that had larger exit wounds then deer shot with a .270 Core Lokt.