Beretta to remain in MD, but reevaluating plans for expansion within the state

[gmhowell]

For all the histrionics, at the time of this writing (6:27 PM) I see no Beretta group products in the classifieds.

 

[webb297]

For all the histrionics, at the time of this writing (6:27 PM) I see no Beretta group products in the classifieds.

Why? Because we would all sell their products? The products are all still fine products, I love my 92fs. Its in future sales that a customer base can have an effect on a business, the same way future votes have an effect on a politician.

 

[trbon8r]

For all the histrionics, at the time of this writing (6:27 PM) I see no Beretta group products in the classifieds.

Good point. If all these true believers really passionately believed in their cause, they would dump all their used Beretta products on the market for cheap to try and punish Beretta and hurt their sales of new guns. I won't be holding my breath waiting for the patriots to stick to their "non Beretta guns" on this one.

 

[why2kmax]

if nothing else, it would be nice to see Beretta throw some public/private support and maybe $$ (if legal) to MSI and other 2A orgs for the court fight over SB281 and the MSP/NICS/Release issue. I think that would go miles toward showing they support us and 2A rights vs just out for whatever concessions they can get.

Magpul announced today on their facebook page, that while they are still leaving CO, they have publicly joined the CO sheriffs in filing a lawsuit to repeal the magazine ban the legislature passed. They are fighting as they are leaving and will continue to fight once gone for colorado 2A rights.

Whether Beretta stays or leaves is their decision, but to have them help us fight for our rights and to repeal these BS laws in some fashion would go a long way to showing they are out to support 2A, vs just out to support themselves.

 

[Docster]

Ah okay. I just got confused because your comments following my quoted post did not seem to directly respond to the subject matter I had included.

MonkeyPunch:
Whoa, my bad! Just noticed what I did. Did not intend to do that, as I stated, my comments were meant to be original, not 'quoting' anyone and just made after yours. My apologies for quoting your comment and making it look like I was directing my comments at your post, as your post was nowhere near the points I was addressing. Sorry! (highly embarrassed)

 

[OnTarget]

It's simple, we support business; they should support us. Takes two!

 

[smokey]

This is where we differ, I would rather there not be a ban. I do not believe that fighting to have your products exempted can be considered fighting against the bill as a whole, just against loosing any of your market share. Sending on officer of the company (a financial guy IIRC) to argue for excluding their products, is not going to cut it when the spend millions yearly on advertisement. How much did they spend advertising to support opposition to SB281?

Hey, if a company wants to be all about the benjamins, i'm cool with that, they just will not be mine.

I'll give my money to MSI, NRA-ILA, and SAF to stand up for my gun rights. I give my money to gun companies if they make the best product for what I can afford. And let's be honest, looking back it is clear that some form of SB281 was going to pass no matter what. Talking to legislators that genuinely had no idea what was in the bill, but voted for it because they were told to reveals that. Beretta got as much as they could changed in the bill before it passed. After that, they still came out and announced their disapproval of the new law, saying it's a bad bill. As a business, they ultimately exist to serve their shareholders and to make money. Getting the bill changed so they could continue doing business was good for them, and it was good for us compared to what the bill could have been.

Again, how did smith & wesson, glock, ruger, or springfield armory get the bill changed to allow us more purchasing freedom of firearms? Oh snap...they didn't. Beretta did. I've never really had an interest in the 92 series or the px4's...but that ARX does look nice to me and when I'm financially able to, I will pick one up.

 

[Robert]

Guys what is up with all the hostility over this? Beretta is NOT the problem here. This thinking that by them leaving will somehow make things better is just beyond my understanding.

Why do we continue to chew on each other...? For the love of God, we had better learn to work together. Beretta is an ally, and we will need to petition them for financial support for the 2014 elections.

People, we are going to need a LOT of money and support. Whatever amount you think it's going to take to make the kind of impact that MUST happen in 2014 , quadruple + it.

 

[joppaj]

I wonder if they'll be able to control themsleves or if they'll cut Mike Miller another check for his reelection.

 

[randyho]

I wonder if they'll be able to control themsleves or if they'll cut Mike Miller another check for his reelection.

^sarcasm well-earned^

A buddy of mine's trying to get my into sporting clays. Setting aside some cash now for an appropriate tool... which will not be a beretta, benelli, etc.

 

[srephwed]

let them stay and contribute

I say let them stay and contribute to pro 2a causes with money that would have been spent on moving.That should be a nice chunk of change.Instead of moving stand and fight,then take back Maryland in 2014.register to vote and tell everyone you know to do so also.Let's show them who the boss is!!!

 

[clay_shooter]

Guys what is up with all the hostility over this? Beretta is NOT the problem here. This thinking that by them leaving will somehow make things better is just beyond my understanding.

I don't understand the hostility either. Beretta leaving will only make things worse on the next go-round.

 

[Glock30Eric]

I agree that Beretta should donate their 10% profit to NRA, GOA, SAF, MSI, Oath Keepers, and 3%ers. If possible, host several shooting competitions for free at their expense. They could promote their products at the competitions. It's a win-win for them.


U-Boat

 

[Kinbote]

I've never had any desire for Beretta products anyway, other than the 1201 which was just a copy of the Benelli, which I believe was one impetus behind Beretta buying Benelli. None of their other companies make anything that interests me, but I'll be sure to advise folks not to buy Beretta Group products from now on. I was considering getting something to support them when they were talking tough; "Beretta doesn't bluff" was one of the headlines, as I recall.

Their actions show they want to provide financial support to cretins like Miller in return for keeping some of their shabby trash off the ban list, so I'll give them the disdain they so richly deserve. Even the PG county cops and the MD Statey boys don't use Berettas anymore; can't say it's a surprise.

 

[SirMrManGuy]

LOL if it takes any company, technicians a year to setup 6 cnc machining.centers, you should set your sail for fail.

While I'm pissed as hell at Beretta and won't buy their products because of this (I didn't expect them to move, but really expected more help from them), you are probably thinking of much smaller off the shelf machining centers which you just roll off the truck, level and plug in. The stuff the other poster was describing were probably custom multi spindle, multi pallet, hive tooling machines that were probably designed custom for Beretta.

Take a read through this thread to get some idea of the kinds of issues that you get buying stuff like that:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/toyoda/machine-porn-these-gals-got-some-hips-163739/ (though admittedly that is much much bigger than anything you would use to make guns)

Sorry machining gripe...

 

[smores]

Ok... for most of you this will be TL;DR but I figured I would say it anyway. This is coming from an employee at Beretta USA Corp., so I will say out front my views do not necessarily represent those of the company or parent company.

First of all, I would like to ask what are these specific exemptions "for Beretta" that everyone keeps talking about? I don't see any language in SB281 that says anything like "XXX rifles are banned EXCEPT the Beretta ARX-100 and CX4". The "exemptions" they may or may not have asked for help out EVERYONE in the state, not just them. They hired a lobbyist (who I ran into a couple times in Annapolis) for this process, which I'm sure any company would have done. I didn't see any senior people from LWRCI or ADCOR testifying next to the NRA rep...

Also, they never said they would leave specifically if the bill was passed at all, just as it was originally written. There were SEVERE penalties for paperwork errors, which would leave many people at Accokeek open to criminal investigation and penalties, should errors be found. Having worked at a small shop, and being responsible for bound books - I know how easy it is to make a mistake even with relatively low numbers of guns going in/out of the acquisition/disposition books. Imagine the MILLIONS of firearms Beretta USA Corp. has handled, and will handle in the future. Humans (and computers) are capable of error, which will DEFINITELY result in problems with bookkeeping. In my understanding, the BATFE is somewhat forgiving depending on the circumstances of each violation, and there is an expectation that SOME error WILL occur in any entity licensed by the BATFE. The Maryland law took this to an extreme.... yet the final bill was amended to be more lenient, which not only will help Beretta but all FFLs in the state, including our IPs.

Another HUGE issue that many people can apparently not grasp is the feat of moving an entire production facility in a short time frame. This has been discussed at length above by people who know more about the process than I do (I just fix the guns), so I will not belabor the point.

Finally I want to bring up the fact that MOST large firearms manufacturers are located in anti-gun states or countries, and some have expanded WITHIN those states, with others expanding outside those areas. This is most certainly true in the case of Beretta, where they opened Beretta USA Corp. to cater to the US market, which is a HUGE portion of their sales revenue. Manufacturing and exporting things from Italy is a nightmare. Italian laws must be complied with in order to make firearms, then they must be exported properly. Add in the shipping costs, import taxes and paperwork on the US side, and you can see it's not easy. You can't buy practically ANY pistol made for the US market in Italy. Compare this to companies like Glock, H&K, Walther and others in countries which HEAVILY restrict the ownership and purchase of firearms, especially handguns. Yet no one boycotts them.

On the US side, we have companies like Sturm, Ruger & Co. (headquartered in CT), Colt's Manufacturing Company (headquartered in CT), Smith & Wesson (headquartered in MA), Savage (headquartered in MA), O.F. Mossberg & Sons (headquartered in CT), Remington Arms (LONG headquartered in Ilion, NY, but recently relocated to NC as part of Cerberus/Freedom Group, along with Marlin and Bushmaster Firearms International - the NY facility is being expanded), Springfield Armory, Inc. (headquartered in IL), Henry Repeating Arms (headquartered in NJ), and many other manufacturers who are long-established in anti-gun states. Where are the calls for boycotts of these companies?

Companies like Ruger have kept their headquarters in New England, while expanding in states like Arizona. What's to say that Beretta isn't planning a similar expansion strategy? Again, many members of MDS are staying in MD, for one or more reasons. It's not fair to cast stones... business is politics, unfortunately. Beretta has to play the game to stay profitable. At a time where the firearms industry can't even fill all the orders they receive, it would be absolutely and completely moronic to shut down production in order to move purely based on political principles. Moving a firearms plant isn't like opening a new McDonald's or Wal-Mart, where anyone of the street can be trained in a few days do do their job relatively effectively. Firearms manufacturing takes years to learn, and MANY people at the Accokeek facility have been there for over a decade, with some being there over 25 years... They are valuable to the company, and may not be OK with moving, especially being closer to retirement age, and/or with families in the area.

So stop casting stones, Beretta has said they do not want to reward MD with their success. I'm confident that they WILL expand into other, gun-friendly states over time, and may eventually leave the state depending on many factors including the military M9 contract.

I am not on a "high horse" as someone said above... I work in the industry and I do have a pretty decent grasp on what's going on, as I'm exposed to it every day. I obviously can't share every detail, but trust me no one in Accokeek is happy with SB281. I would suggest that rather than calling and e-mailing the company saying how they stabbed us in the back or something, you should let them know that you appreciate the help in Annapolis. The MSI, NRA, MLDFA and other organizations couldn't stop this train wreck either... so chill the hell out. We got bent over backwards, but the bill DID get amended quite a bit as to give us at least a little bit of lubrication. I'm not saying it's a good bill AT ALL, but anyone who read the original draft knows that it could have been MUCH WORSE.

If over time, Beretta shows no willingness to continue the fight, and/or support politicians like Mike Miller, then I agree - there is a HUGE problem. But this bill is still fresh and hasn't even been fully implemented... let's see what the possible referendum and the lawsuits brought will do to help us.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

While I'm pissed as hell at Beretta and won't buy their products because of this (I didn't expect them to move, but really expected more help from them), you are probably thinking of much smaller off the shelf machining centers which you just roll off the truck, level and plug in. The stuff the other poster was describing were probably custom multi spindle, multi pallet, hive tooling machines that were probably designed custom for Beretta.

Take a read through this thread to get some idea of the kinds of issues that you get buying stuff like that:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/toyoda/machine-porn-these-gals-got-some-hips-163739/ (though admittedly that is much much bigger than anything you would use to make guns)

Sorry machining gripe...

10-4, I gotcha.

 

[iobidder]

So who's boycotting Beretta for staying in Maryland?

 

[Moon]

So who's boycotting Beretta for staying in Maryland?

I don't think I will boycott them for staying in MD, but might for supporting Miller. The thing is, a lot of manufacturers make things I want more than what Beretta makes, and I only have so much time and money, so the point is probably moot.

 

[MDFF2008]

I'll reserve my judgement. If they have contracts they have to honor, that's cool. But once those are over, they better be moving.