Montoya Hearing Deliberation Audio-Shocking!

[PJDiesel]

Oh,... .and:

 

[pbharvey]

Day One.

 

[pbharvey]

One of my basic concerns is that of precedent. Over the last year, I've seen applicants receive a permit only to witness others be denied, based pretty much on the same set of circumstances. Memory alone doesn't cut it. The Board needs a mechanism/process whereby its decisions are not arbitrary...we have enough of that when examining MSP positions. It's also goes to presentation. Two applicants (again with similar arguments); one gets the golden ring, the other a refusal based at least in part on how well a person speaks in public. This has got to stop. The quicker the better.

Has there ever been a lawsuit over this?
If one realtor gets their ccw, all realtors should be able to get the ccw. There should be no presentation of arguments, there should only be a list of facts.

 

[Stoveman]

Day One.

Welcome back homie!

 

[44man]

Day One.

day one for sure......

 

[montoya32]

Has there ever been a lawsuit over this?

If one realtor gets their ccw, all realtors should be able to get the ccw. There should be no presentation of arguments, there should only be a list of facts.

This is part of the problem. If another realtor applies, they have to articulate the same things I did. If they just apply, and don't bring up murdered Realtors, or carry expensive equipment or being self-employed, the MSP will deny.


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[PJDiesel]

Welcome back homie!

Little self imposed hiatus, good for the soul. I did it back in around the holidays of 2013 and it was helpful to me then also.

This subject is near and dear to my heart, I was there for the hearing along with the Thrilla in 'Pikesvilla with many plastic bound binders to enlighten the powers that be.

I believe this board should be ashamed of themselves for their actions and inaction in some cases. I also wouldn't be surprised if we eventually learn there are other players in the background that have made suggestions to the board members as to how they should be voting.

I raise my Boston Creme to Mr. Montoya, he's one of a few whom have really dug in and sacrificed both time and money in an effort to shed light on this cluster ef.

 

[PJDiesel]

Ew,.... forgot, I've got a story of an investor/landlord who got his permit, spoke with him a few months ago during my MDS break.

Listen folks,... all he had to do was be attacked from behind while walking down a staircase and then have his head repeatedly slammed into a tile floor until left for dead in a pool of blood. If you don't mind short term memory loss and slurred speach for the rest of your life.

Dispute over damages and return of a security deposit. If you think you can't be put in a quite literal fight for your life over something so trivial think again.

We certainly don't need some folically challenged know it all thinking he's going to "set a precedent" for a whole industry.

Realtors don't need permits.

 

[swinokur]

I'm gonna ask Norton to ban your logic. We don't need your truth talk here. lol

Zoo can ban himself.

 

[montoya32]

Zoo can ban himself.

That's no fun. Lol



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[montoya32]

Ew,.... forgot, I've got a story of an investor/landlord who got his permit, spoke with him a few months ago during my MDS break.



Listen folks,... all he had to do was be attacked from behind while walking down a staircase and then have his head repeatedly slammed into a tile floor until left for dead in a pool of blood. If you don't mind short term memory loss and slurred speach for the rest of your life.



Dispute over damages and return of a security deposit. If you think you can't be put in a quite literal fight for your life over something so trivial think again.



We certainly don't need some folically challenged know it all thinking he's going to "set a precedent" for a whole industry.



Realtors don't need permits.

Ha ha


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[AntiGun]

We certainly don't need some folically challenged know it all thinking he's going to "set a precedent" for a whole industry.

Realtors don't need permits.

That's almost straight from the audio recording...

 

[pbharvey]

Ew,.... forgot, I've got a story of an investor/landlord who got his permit, spoke with him a few months ago during my MDS break.

Listen folks,... all he had to do was be attacked from behind while walking down a staircase and then have his head repeatedly slammed into a tile floor until left for dead in a pool of blood. If you don't mind short term memory loss and slurred speach for the rest of your life.

Dispute over damages and return of a security deposit. If you think you can't be put in a quite literal fight for your life over something so trivial think again.

We certainly don't need some folically challenged know it all thinking he's going to "set a precedent" for a whole industry.

Realtors don't need permits.

So if someone you know and have a contract with owes you money and attacks you, you can get a permit but if someone you don't know just attacks you you can't get a permit?

 

[PJDiesel]

That's almost straight from the audio recording...

Yeah, I took a quick listen.

Point always was, NONE of these hearings were ever putting the State or Board in jeopardy of "setting a precedents". This isn't a court of law, we (lay men / on this board) knew this well in advance of Mr. Montoya going in front of this board.

How she assumed that there would be a flood of Realtors® showing up to get their permits is beyond me (us). That was never the point of any of this (to my knowledge).

 

[PJDiesel]

So if someone you know and have a contract with owes you money and attacks you, you can get a permit but if someone you don't know just attacks you you can't get a permit?

This dude almost literally died where he laid. They think it was 45 minutes before he was able to get his phone out of his pocket. Chilling part was he he was pointing in the middle of the floor showing me where he was, made the hair on my neck stand up.

I think it's about money. I think it's about the State pacifying the people who they think can really hurt them politically. I think they know the real deal AVERAGE resident is going to just look at the ridicilous app process and say fugg it. They've (the State) has very carefully designed this permitting scheme to only allow business owners and others with money/power or who will be real torn in their side to get permits.

Sick part is over the years it's almost been a roll of the dice as to who gets one and who doesn't, not a whole lot more to it.

 

[zoostation]

Zoo can ban himself.

I've tried but I keep appealing to myself and winning.

 

[mopar92]

I've tried but I keep appealing to myself and winning.

You should ban Norton then so we can have a Highlander style MDS mod battle.

 

[Blaster229]

They've (the State) has very carefully designed this permitting scheme to only allow business owners and others with money/power or who will be real torn in their side to get permits.

Well, they specifically said " Realtors don't handle money typically. It's only paperwork."

 

[mxrider]

Raskin around the 8min mark makes very good observations. He is puzzled that new evidence is presented, which is absolutely understandable. I always perceived an appeal as arguing MSP has made a mistake with evidence already provided. Raskin is a bit puzzled that new evidence is introduced. I can understand MSP at a hearing getting pissed with people dropping NEW CLAIMS, and EVIDENCE, they did not have and oppurtunity to review when making the decision. Some people make the leap that an appeal is a venue to pile on more argument, when every appeal I've seen is basically argument the previous arbiter made a mistake or got something wrong on evidence and testimony already provided. One of the longest hearings where a member prevailed, they were arguing law. That is not the same as introducing new testimony, claims or evidence. When people come in with a bucket of more reasons they should get the permit, it is arguably a case where MSP should allow amended applications if denied before the appeal process.. then if denied again, all the cards are on the table at appeal.

Believe it or not, this is where the "hallway" decisions are coming from. The MSP has apparently been following up with applicants and getting the additional information so they can issue a permit. This is not being done literally in the hallway.

Secondly, for those that are claiming this is circumventing setting precedent, while you are partially correct, the fact remains that the MSP is issuing these permits, which is setting the same precedent within the MSP. While we all agree there is much much more that the MSP can do, I do believe that things are getting better.

 

[mxrider]

Their hands really arent tied.
They have a remarkable amount of discretion. Anyone saying differently doesnt understand, or doesnt want you to understand.

This is absolutely fact and I wish that ALL of the board members would understand that fact.