Montoya Hearing Deliberation Audio-Shocking!

[PapiBarcelona]

These are Hogan appointees? enough said...

Right, because he can undo decades of gun phobia with a wave of the wand?

 

[Jaybeez]

Raskin around the 8min mark makes very good observations. He is puzzled that new evidence is presented, which is absolutely understandable. I always perceived an appeal as arguing MSP has made a mistake with evidence already provided. Raskin is a bit puzzled that new evidence is introduced. I can understand MSP at a hearing getting pissed with people dropping NEW CLAIMS, and EVIDENCE, they did not have and oppurtunity to review when making the decision. Some people make the leap that an appeal is a venue to pile on more argument, when every appeal I've seen is basically argument the previous arbiter made a mistake or got something wrong on evidence and testimony already provided. One of the longest hearings where a member prevailed, they were arguing law. That is not the same as introducing new testimony, claims or evidence. When people come in with a bucket of more reasons they should get the permit, it is arguably a case where MSP should allow amended applications if denied before the appeal process.. then if denied again, all the cards are on the table at appeal.

COMAR on the board regarding the conduct of hearings and submission of evidence
http://www.dsd.state.md.us/comar/comarhtml/12/12.09.01.05.htm

In addition, comar states that the board will also adhere to title 10 state government
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...n=10-213&ext=html&session=2015RS&tab=subject5
And
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...n=10-214&ext=html&session=2015RS&tab=subject5

 

[moojersey]

Holy bombshell, Batman!

The level of sheer ignorance exhibited by White, West and Neverdon is mind boggling. No wonder the two women would barely open their mouths during open session as the public would see exactly how void of knowledge they are about a subject in which they are trained instructors.

Thanks for making this public, if I were you I would bitch loud and long until you get another bite at the apple.

Tis better to remain silent and thought a complete imbecile than to speak up and remove all doubt.

And the two ladies cannot understand that I am not asking for law to be changed, just for the way the MSP applies said law which IS the purpose of the board. The board IS the proper venue to set precedent and NO I will not let a sleeping dog lie. I am NOT satisfied with a permit as it is my right to protect myself.

Also, I like how Mrs White cites the 95% approval rate.

Meh we always knew she was not really a 2A advocate. White and West were never very 2A friendly in my opinion. Their interests focus solely around their businesses. I think it is funny that they are upset this discussion is happening.

So they want to take the hard earned money from the 2A community ... then turn around, basically vote against us, and then get mad we are talking about what happened....

Given the way that she has treated members on this forum at the board meetings, I'm surprised she hasn't opened her mouth to at least attempt to explain to the membership about why she is following the status quo.

It's pretty criminal IMHO

 

[moojersey]

I've read enough of your posts to wonder where your loyalties lie. You seem to have a huge disdain for Hogan although he is only been in office for a year or two. It's sad that you think politics is a one issue game. He wasn't elected on his lack of a 2A platform. He was elected because the people of Maryland thought he was the right guy for the job. Compared to those in the near past, I think he's doing a pretty good job. Sorry you don't feel that way.

If I'm way off base, than you are a Democrat shill.

Nah MuleSkinner is just outspoken. He is 100% with us. I think there is a lot of frustration by Marylanders that you may not understand living in Delaware. You can get a carry permit with minimal hassle, meanwhile we keep going in circles for the dumbest details of the process.

 

[rambling_one]

One of my basic concerns is that of precedent. Over the last year, I've seen applicants receive a permit only to witness others be denied, based pretty much on the same set of circumstances. Memory alone doesn't cut it. The Board needs a mechanism/process whereby its decisions are not arbitrary...we have enough of that when examining MSP positions. It's also goes to presentation. Two applicants (again with similar arguments); one gets the golden ring, the other a refusal based at least in part on how well a person speaks in public. This has got to stop. The quicker the better.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

The HPRB can issue a permit to ANYONE, even a prohibited person, if they are so inclined. The only issue is that if they buck the current law, the AG will strike their decision down and they will likely be reprimanded. Obviously my example is a far fetched one, but they can go all the way up to that point.

And at that point, won't it be an inter-agency pissing match?

 

[fidelity]

One of my basic concerns is that of precedent. Over the last year, I've seen applicants receive a permit only to witness others be denied, based pretty much on the same set of circumstances. ...

Didn't a chief of surgery at some Baltimore city hospital recently get rejected? Obviously someone with a lawn mowing business making regular deposits is more likely to be a robbery target than an accomplished physician with a possibly nice vehicle that works downtown.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Stoveman]

Didn't a chief of surgery at some Baltimore city hospital recently get rejected? Obviously someone with a lawn mowing business making regular deposits is more likely to be a robbery target than an accomplished physician with a possibly nice vehicle that works downtown.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Yes. And Wilson kept repeating that hospitals were a GFZ.

 

[fidelity]

Yes. And Wilson kept repeating that hospitals were a GFZ.

Holy chit. That ignorant. Why not declare the US a GFZ and call it a day, if she likes to think magically.


ETA: like this hospital ... http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/24/shooting-wellness-center/13113555/

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[montoya32]

Yes. And Wilson kept repeating that hospitals were a GFZ.

That is something else the MSP and HPRB need to be made aware of. Their job is to issue the permit, not decide that there are places the permit holder may travel that are prohibited. If I decide to carry in a school, that is me breaking the law, not the MSP or board.

 

[zoostation]

Didn't a chief of surgery at some Baltimore city hospital recently get rejected? Obviously someone with a lawn mowing business making regular deposits is more likely to be a robbery target than an accomplished physician with a possibly nice vehicle that works downtown.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Well after all, we can't just trust anyone with a gun. Why would anyone trust a guy was probably always in the top .5% of his class from the day he entered preschool, managed to get into and survive medical school, a lengthy residency or two, and a fellowship or two, and is together enough to not only be allowed to cut on patients but also supervise other doctors doing the same.

I mean just because someone like that needs to travel through one of the murder capitals of the world to get to work, why should he need a permit? I mean the law is the law, and it says you have to have business receipts to deserve a permit. Oh wait, it says no such damn thing? All it says is good and substantial reason, and all the rest is just subjective stuff that has been made up starting circa 1972 and no one in power has ever had the independent nerve to question it?

Oh.......nevermind......

 

[montoya32]

Well after all, we can't just trust anyone with a gun. Why would anyone trust a guy was probably always in the top .5% of his class from the day he entered preschool, managed to get into and survive medical school, a lengthy residency or two, and a fellowship or two, and is together enough to not only be allowed to cut on patients but also supervise other doctors doing the same.

I mean just because someone like that needs to travel through one of the murder capitals of the world to get to work, why should he need a permit? I mean the law is the law, and it says you have to have business receipts to deserve a permit. Oh wait, it says no such damn thing? It's all just stuff that has been made up starting circa 1972 and no one in power has ever had the independent nerve to question it?

Oh.......nevermind......

I'm gonna ask Norton to ban your logic. We don't need your truth talk here. lol

 

[Blaster229]

If I decide to carry in a school, that is me breaking the law, not the MSP or board.

Oh didn't you know? They assume all vicarious liability for all of their decisions. So they think.

 

[montoya32]

Oh didn't you know? They assume all vicarious liability for all of their decisions. So they think.

It has been said many, many times by HPRB members. You're a nurse, if we give you a permit to carry from your car to work, where will you store it? The hospital is a gun free zone.

My answer is, "I'll figure something out. That is not your worry."

 

[rambling_one]

Then there's the elderly woman in a wheel chair who PASSED the HQL course, but was voted down, in part, because one board member worried that she may not be able to handle a handgun.

 

[redeemed.man]

Then there's the elderly woman in a wheel chair who PASSED the HQL course, but was voted down, in part, because one board member worried that she may not be able to handle a handgun.

Which board member might that be?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Which board member might that be?

One of the 2 that consistently has screwed the community?

 

[redeemed.man]

One of the 2 that consistently has screwed the community?

Ok but which one?

 

[Stoveman]

Which board member might that be?

Everybody's favorite - Patty West

 

[PJDiesel]

Day One.