Montoya Hearing Deliberation Audio-Shocking!

[highli99]

Little self imposed hiatus, good for the soul. I did it back in around the holidays of 2013 and it was helpful to me then also.

This subject is near and dear to my heart, I was there for the hearing along with the Thrilla in 'Pikesvilla with many plastic bound binders to enlighten the powers that be.

I believe this board should be ashamed of themselves for their actions and inaction in some cases. I also wouldn't be surprised if we eventually learn there are other players in the background that have made suggestions to the board members as to how they should be voting.

I raise my Boston Creme to Mr. Montoya, he's one of a few whom have really dug in and sacrificed both time and money in an effort to shed light on this cluster ef.

Great Post Phil! Hope all is well.


Tim,

Thanks for this post. It is infuriating but info I am glad to know. You fought a good fight. Btw, based on Britts support of 2nd amendment issues I recently hired her to prepare all my trust/estate docs. She did an awesome job.

This board has been a huge disappointment. I wish I understood why the board is so intimidated by the MSP. This is a crisis that begs for moral couage. The law is clear and this is even a process for the AG to appeal decisions that the HPRB makes.

Maybe the next patriot picket should be in Annapolis and we should plead with Hogan to direct the Secretary to accept self defense as G&S? might even be fun...

 

[montoya32]

Believe it or not, this is where the "hallway" decisions are coming from. The MSP has apparently been following up with applicants and getting the additional information so they can issue a permit. This is not being done literally in the hallway.

Secondly, for those that are claiming this is circumventing setting precedent, while you are partially correct, the fact remains that the MSP is issuing these permits, which is setting the same precedent within the MSP. While we all agree there is much much more that the MSP can do, I do believe that things are getting better.

The issue is the inconsistency and the remaining board member with this interpretation. She agreed with the resigned board member in the application of law and process of the board.

 

[mxrider]

Well, they specifically said " Realtors don't handle money typically. It's only paperwork."

Funny thing talking about Realtors....

I was speaking with the MSP out in the hallway last night before heading out to watch the O's game and asked them if an employee of a real estate firm applied, would they generally qualify. Not based on being a business owner, but based on the fact that they would have to go to meet unknown people, show empty homes where squatters may be etc. He told me that most likely, they would qualify.

Now, we just need a realtor to apply......

 

[Blaster229]

Funny thing talking about Realtors....

I was speaking with the MSP out in the hallway last night before heading out to watch the O's game and asked them if an employee of a real estate firm applied, would they generally qualify. Not based on being a business owner, but based on the fact that they would have to go to meet unknown people, show empty homes where squatters may be etc. He told me that most likely, they would qualify.

Now, we just need a realtor to apply......

Or a Real Estate Agent.

 

[montoya32]

Funny thing talking about Realtors....

I was speaking with the MSP out in the hallway last night before heading out to watch the O's game and asked them if an employee of a real estate firm applied, would they generally qualify. Not based on being a business owner, but based on the fact that they would have to go to meet unknown people, show empty homes where squatters may be etc. He told me that most likely, they would qualify.

Now, we just need a realtor to apply......

They would need to be endorsed or sponsored by the employer. Also, they lie.

 

[mxrider]

They would need to be endorsed or sponsored by the employer. Also, they lie.

According to Lt. Rosignol, they would verify the employment with the employer and verify their duties. Standard business restrictions would likely apply.

Like I said, I need a realtor looking to get their permit.

 

[montoya32]

According to Lt. Rosignol, they would verify the employment with the employer and verify their duties. Standard business restrictions would likely apply.

Like I said, I need a realtor looking to get their permit.

Not just a Realtor. You would need a company that hires employees that are licensed Realtors. 95% of the companies bring on Realtors as self-employed contractors. Also, your rub is with the MSP needing to speak to the employer.

My rub is that the law prevents the "outing" of permit holders and I would even say permit applicants. The references violates this as well as the need to speak to spouses and employers. If the permit is not required by the employer for employment, then no one else should be involved.

 

[Schipperke]

Well, they specifically said " Realtors® don't handle money typically. It's only paperwork."

Don't forget the mark.

 

[Jaybeez]

According to Lt. Rosignol, they would verify the employment with the employer and verify their duties. Standard business restrictions would likely apply.

Like I said, I need a realtor looking to get their permit.

If you listen to the audio of Tim's informal review, the reason he was initially denied by msp, was because they didnt consider him an independant contractor and business owner, and wanted endorsement from his "employer".

The board and msp has been very consistant in that. It was even brought up again last night with the customs and border patrol agent. He couldn't get an employer endorsement, becaue cpb lawyers didnt want the liability.

Same with the heart doctor at Sinai.

Same with Dea agent.

In the case of the sheriff's office dispatcher, once they saw the letter from the sheriff "employer", they were ready to grant the permit.

 

[rambling_one]

Everybody's favorite - Patty West

Uh, huh. Mr. Hollman.

 

[JPG]

If you listen to the audio of Tim's informal review, the reason he was initially denied by msp, was because they didnt consider him an independant contractor and business owner, and wanted endorsement from his "employer".

The board and msp has been very consistant in that. It was even brought up again last night with the customs and border patrol agent. He couldn't get an employer endorsement, becaue cpb lawyers didnt want the liability.

Same with the heart doctor at Sinai.

Same with Dea agent.

In the case of the sheriff's office dispatcher, once they saw the letter from the sheriff "employer", they were ready to grant the permit.

And there's the rub. They only approve for "business" purposes. The average person is SOL unless they have a police report for something that has already happened.

 

[HankR]

Has anyone been able to get it to work from the Google drive link I posted? If it is not useful I can delete the file.

Worked for me (IPad), the Dropbox was not working, so thanks.

I don't know the players, but it bothered me to hear the blabber mouth chickie refer to "granting" him his rights. My natural rights were granted by God, who I've always assumed had a deeper voice. She also seemed to pause and choke back a little vomit every time she managed to say "firearm".

Sorry my former home has fallen to this level,

 

[Biggfoot44]

Back at Muleskinner's post #118 regarding the HPRB members being apointed by Hogan ;

To give Hogan his due, and place into historical perspective. For nearly the entire existance of the HPRB ( I almost want to say always, but contemporary news accounts circa 1972 did have a cpl at the very start of tje Handgun Permit process. Capt Jack has stated none during the institutional memory during his tenure.) there had been no turnovers, and the Board was 100% rubber stamp for MSP.

As imperfect and inconsistant as the Current members, they are light years ahead of what went before.

 

[mxrider]

Not just a Realtor. You would need a company that hires employees that are licensed Realtors. 95% of the companies bring on Realtors as self-employed contractors. Also, your rub is with the MSP needing to speak to the employer.

My rub is that the law prevents the "outing" of permit holders and I would even say permit applicants. The references violates this as well as the need to speak to spouses and employers. If the permit is not required by the employer for employment, then no one else should be involved.

If you listen to the audio of Tim's informal review, the reason he was initially denied by msp, was because they didnt consider him an independant contractor and business owner, and wanted endorsement from his "employer".

The board and msp has been very consistant in that. It was even brought up again last night with the customs and border patrol agent. He couldn't get an employer endorsement, becaue cpb lawyers didnt want the liability.

Same with the heart doctor at Sinai.

Same with Dea agent.

In the case of the sheriff's office dispatcher, once they saw the letter from the sheriff "employer", they were ready to grant the permit.

I get what you are saying completely. I'm just saying that Lt. Rosignol informed me differently Tuesday night in that the MSP would most likely issue a business restricted permit to a realtor(W2 employee) based upon their work activities.

 

[PO2012]

I must have blinked a while back. Is Mr Neverdon an attorney? I recall him being administrator and providing administrative support, don't recall anything about legal beagle status.

Russell Neverdon is a well known criminal defense attorney in Baltimore City. He ran against Marilyn Mosby for State's Attorney but she got him disqualified and removed from the ballot.

 

[PO2012]

And there's the rub. They only approve for "business" purposes. The average person is SOL unless they have a police report for something that has already happened.

You can obtain an unrestricted wear and carry permit if you have testified against gang members or violent criminals or if you have a documented history of threats made against you. A Police report (or reports) may or may not get you the permit. What makes the difference is being able to get a letter from either from the investigating Officer or Detective in your case or from their supervisor on department letterhead. A letter from your local State's Attorney will also suffice.

I have encountered my share of private citizens with unrestricted permits on traffic stops. There are more than you might think. That doesn't mean I agree with the process or the law as it currently stands, it's simply an observation. If you need a wear and carry permit because you have been targeted, a letter from a Federal, State or local law enforcement agency or prosecutor's office is the way to go about getting it. If you want to be issued a wear and carry permit based on principle, there's a long fight ahead.

 

[redeemed.man]

You can obtain an unrestricted wear and carry permit if you have testified against gang members or violent criminals or if you have a documented history of threats made against you. A Police report (or reports) may or may not get you the permit. What makes the difference is being able to get a letter from either from the investigating Officer or Detective in your case or from their supervisor on department letterhead. A letter from your local State's Attorney will also suffice.

I have encountered my share of private citizens with unrestricted permits on traffic stops. There are more than you might think. That doesn't mean I agree with the process or the law as it currently stands, it's simply an observation. If you need a wear and carry permit because you have been targeted, a letter from a Federal, State or local law enforcement agency or prosecutor's office is the way to go about getting it. If you want to be issued a wear and carry permit based on principle, there's a long fight ahead.

It may even be a little easier than you describe at the moment but of course that can change day to day.

 

[eruby]

Little self imposed hiatus, good for the soul. I did it back in around the holidays of 2013 and it was helpful to me then also....

Welcome back sir!!

100% empathy. I too found myself heading "into the heart of an immense darkness" some time ago and backed away.

I applaud Tim, he is doing yeoman's service. I will continue to fight in Annapolis, statewide, and where ever I can, but it's fighting for the future. I will likely die in Maryland never getting a permit.

 

[Tomcat]

I think they know the real deal AVERAGE resident is going to just look at the ridicilous app process and say fugg it. They've (the State) has very carefully designed this permitting scheme to only allow business owners and others with money/power or who will be real torn in their side to get permits.

I think this is a very true statement. I have a friend who is a female real estate agent who told me as much. I offered to help her through the hurdles.

They would need to be endorsed or sponsored by the employer.....

If you listen to the audio of Tim's informal review, the reason he was initially denied by msp, was because they didnt consider him an independant contractor and business owner, and wanted endorsement from his "employer".

The board and msp has been very consistant in that. It was even brought up again last night with the customs and border patrol agent. He couldn't get an employer endorsement, becaue cpb lawyers didnt want the liability.

Same with the heart doctor at Sinai.

Same with Dea agent.

In the case of the sheriff's office dispatcher, once they saw the letter from the sheriff "employer", they were ready to grant the permit.

I asked this question to Lt. Rossignol when he called me. They don't need to have the employer "endorse" you, just verify employment and what you're saying you do. I specifically asked him about the not wanting it to be a liability issue. I guess it comes down to how the investigating officer approaches the employer. He told me to call him or Sgt. Durkee if I had any more questions about it.

 

[montoya32]

I think this is a very true statement. I have a friend who is a female real estate agent who told me as much. I offered to help her through the hurdles.











I asked this question to Lt. Rossignol when he called me. They don't need to have the employer "endorse" you, just verify employment and what you're saying you do. I specifically asked him about the not wanting it to be a liability issue. I guess it comes down to how the investigating officer approaches the employer. He told me to call him or Sgt. Durkee if I had any more questions about it.

Maybe they changed things, but I think the Sgt is not aware of how restrictive his department is.


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