HR402 introduced in the House: Nationwide reciprocity

[Inigoes]

We can and we just might. We need to give them something.

We could give them ubc. We could allow the permit to be a wavier of the background check. We could require all private sales to require a background check or a permit from this system.

The big O will declare victory on gun control as a key missing piece of his legacy ..

Or not. But never say never.

As he fades into the sunset his ego will ask....how can I save my legacy?

O care cluster f,,k
FP cluster f,,k

War on terror. ..c+
Gun control F
Etc.

He will need a win.

UBC will pass anytime they want as per Alan Gotlieb he should know.

Now put the deal on a must pass bill. Toss in the threat of court action...season with the idea that he has to do it not H. Clinton..

And then a dash of skidish Democrats that are not in fact die hard antis and need to run in states like... Nevada.

Never say never...its going to take work and strategy to do it..

But it can happen...unless we cut off our leadership at the knees for fear of what they might do...

I for one am not willing to sacrifice any more of my rights.

Attach the national carry bill to something else that Obama wants really badly.

 

[TheRussianNightmare]

Giving them UBC which means losing my personal property rights to possibly get carry is not a fair exchange in my mind.

I think national carry for ubc may be a fair trade. It may help keep some firearms out of a bad guys hands, and will get many more firearms into the hands of the good guys. Sounds like a win to me.

 

[danb]

Without seeing the bill, this could be bad or good for Marylander's.

If it says something to the effect states have to recognize validly-issued out of state carry permits, states may drop issuance of non resident permits - no longer a need to issue them (states do not issue non-resident drivers licenses). States are not going to do something that helps residents of only a few states. It could end up meaning that Marylander's must get a Maryland permit. I do not personally see the MD, NY, NJ legislatures conceding here, I see them being intractable. To ensure this does not happen it would have to force states to shall issue, which I do not see happening either.

Maybe a good thing nationally, but it could be good or bad for MDers depending on what's in it and how states adjust.

One more thought about this: The feds cannot force states to shall issue, that is true. However The text of the legislation could make clear that Congress interprets the 2A as including the right to "carry" or "bear." This might not force the states to shall issue per se, but would carry significant weight in Peruta, and the courts - courts often defer to legislative interpretation.

 

[BUFF7MM]

Ok I'm in the memory loss thread, what is UBC?

 

[danb]

UBC = universal background checks gun registry.

 

[BUFF7MM]

UBC = universal background checks gun registry.

Thank you.

 

[TopTechAgent]

I think national carry for ubc may be a fair trade. It may help keep some firearms out of a bad guys hands, and will get many more firearms into the hands of the good guys. Sounds like a win to me.

I have a feeling what they mean by universal background checks includes even more registration schemes, elimination of private sales, and more restrictions like expanding the list of who is prohibited.

 

[Brooklyn]

Giving them UBC which means losing my personal property rights to possibly get carry is not a fair exchange in my mind.

To support shafting the 40 or so states who have their rights now so we may get ours is not the right course of action in my mind at all.

If they force gay marriage on the entire nation then I see no reason why this is not similar.

This makes no sense.

Moreover ubc will pass regardless. Bank on it.

 

[Inigoes]

This makes no sense.

Moreover ubc will pass regardless. Bank on it.

Why are you so willing to erode our rights further?

 

[Brooklyn]

I have a feeling what they mean by universal background checks includes even more registration schemes, elimination of private sales, and more restrictions like expanding the list of who is prohibited.

Which is why we need to write the bill and not let them do it.

Get a seat at the table or be shut out. Its that simple.

 

[Brooklyn]

I think national carry for ubc may be a fair trade. It may help keep some firearms out of a bad guys hands, and will get many more firearms into the hands of the good guys. Sounds like a win to me.

Its does nothing. In my opinion it fails Strict Scrutiny. But I am not so foolish as to think the court will hold as such.

Trouble is so many ,even on our side want UBC. We can't even deliver our entire caucus on this issue.

 

[aquaman]

Which is why we need to write the bill and not let them do it.

Get a seat at the table or be shut out. Its that simple.

LMAO. Why? So a few years later the same corrupt liberals can abuse the system like they did with the IRS? IN case you haven't noticed Obama and his cronies routinely break the law and the media covers for them

Give an inch....

 

[Brooklyn]

Why are you so willing to erode our rights further?

Because its going to pass with or without us.

IF we get in the mix we.,can prevent a gun registry by using the permit as the check. No more reason to ban private sales since the permit is the check.

No need to send gun information anywhere because the permit is the check..

Now if it passes without us..what do you think will happen?

I think UBC is stupid and does not pass SS, nor even IS,but guess what the court does not care what I think, and the odds of getting UBC struck are low.

Now if we get National carry, which we can not get on our own or from the court, in exchange for something we can't pervent and can weaken considerably allong the way that's a win.

AND...we can still fight UBC in court and see if the court will enforce true SS.

Or we could put all our faith in the courts,watch moderates jump ship and take a full loss-

 

[Brooklyn]

LMAO. Why? So a few years later the same corrupt liberals can abuse the system like they did with the IRS? IN case you haven't noticed Obama and his cronies routinely break the law and the media covers for them

Give an inch....

Read bellow they can't record info they don't get in the first place...the permit is the check.

Not to mention they are doing it now anyway, you sound like the black knight from the Holy Grail.. its just a scratch ...

 

[Inigoes]

Because its going to pass with or without us.

IF we get in the mix we.,can prevent a gun registry by using the permit as the check. No more reason to ban private sales since the permit is the check.

No need to send gun information anywhere because the permit is the check..

Now if it passes without us..what do you think will happen?

I think UBC is stupid and does not pass SS, nor even IS,but guess what the court does not care what I think, and the odds of getting UBC struck are low.

Now if we get National carry, which we can not get on our own or from the court, in exchange for something we can't pervent and can weaken considerably allong the way that's a win.

AND...we can still fight UBC in court and see if the court will enforce true SS.

Or we could put all our faith in the courts,watch moderates jump ship and take a full loss-

Currently, there is a law prohibiting the BATFE from maintaining a centralized gun registry. Which moots the hypothesis.

I am not willing to give anything else, until the government (Federal, State, and Local) flat out recognizes our enumerated constitutional right as it is written.

 

[Brooklyn]

Currently, there is a law prohibiting the BATFE from maintaining a centralized gun registry. Which moots the hypothesis.

I am not willing to give anything else, until the government (Federal, State, and Local) flat out recognizes our enumerated constitutional right as it is written.

OK listen to what I am saying..

1.The law does not prevent a gun registry.. it was sabotaged by op force to say only that they could not use the background check process to do so.. so instead they are using the dealer audit process.. they play the game better than we do..I want to try and change that.

2. The new ubc will use the permit process only. No gun information will need to be sent anywhere.

Ftf will be legal under federal law anywhere in the country on presentation of permit.
This will create a safe harbor from procesution under both state and federal gun laws.

3. Then we attack the dealer record Keeping requirements..


Now can you tell me how that is giving up rights that you have not already given up?


These are incremental steps. The same trick they used on us. The same loud voices that want to use the position tactics against them are now suddenly silent..

Explain that..


There are far to many moderates who will not hold the hard line you wish.
That s a fact.

Frankly I am surprised any moderates will deal with us at all.


The whole f. King camel is in the tent and pissing on our heads..
.denial is not a stategy.

 

[embermage]

This makes no sense.

Moreover ubc will pass regardless. Bank on it.

I will not comply with any UBC scheme. Already seen how it works in Colorado, for the most part everyone ignores it and the local law enforcement publically states they will not enforce it. There are already states that have passed resolutions to defy any further gun control measures at the Federal level using the 9th and 10th amendments as their guidelines. Federal government actually made a mistake when states started passing their weed legalization laws and they turned a blind eye to the issue, now there is an established precedent for ignoring Federal regulation.

Only basis I could even reasonably see for a trade of UBC for something else is repeal of the Hughes Amendment outright and modification of NFA to state that Suppressors are no longer NFA items. I would go for removal of SBS and SBR as well, but for some states (Maryland springs to mind) SBS/SBR are one of the few ways they can get otherwise unobtainable firearms. If the NFA could be modified so that NFA had supremacy over state laws in the matter of SBS/SBR in all matters (length etc)(basically becoming a Shall Issue tax stamp) in such a way that states cannot ban SBS/SBR ownership by any means.

 

[Brooklyn]

I will not comply with any UBC scheme. Already seen how it works in Colorado, for the most part everyone ignores it and the local law enforcement publically states they will not enforce it. There are already states that have passed resolutions to defy any further gun control measures at the Federal level using the 9th and 10th amendments as their guidelines. Federal government actually made a mistake when states started passing their weed legalization laws and they turned a blind eye to the issue, now there is an established precedent for ignoring Federal regulation.

Good luck with that..

You know that delay of enforcement is not a waiver right?

You know that the Sol for poession is effectively infinite right?

You know that without a background check you can't show due diligence right?


Rember when Blomberg did those stings at gun shows..rember fast an furious.. keep at it and you will see just enough enforcement to deter..

And the best part...it will make the case that gun control is needed. And gun owners are not really law abiding..

Good luck with that.

 

[danb]

I will not comply with any UBC scheme.

If you live in Maryland, you already do.

 

[Inigoes]

OK listen to what I am saying..

1.The law does not prevent a gun registry.. it was sabotaged by op force to say only that they could not use the background check process to do so.. so instead they are using the dealer audit process.. they play the game better than we do..I want to try and change that.

2. The new ubc will use the permit process only. No gun information will need to be sent anywhere.

Ftf will be legal under federal law anywhere in the country on presentation of permit.
This will create a safe harbor from procesution under both state and federal gun laws.

3. Then we attack the dealer record Keeping requirements..


Now can you tell me how that is giving up rights that you have not already given up?


These are incremental steps. The same trick they used on us. The same loud voices that want to use the position tactics against them are now suddenly silent..

Explain that..


There are far to many moderates who will not hold the hard line you wish.
That s a fact.

Frankly I am surprised any moderates will deal with us at all.


The whole f. King camel is in the tent and pissing on our heads..
.denial is not a stategy.

How much is this permit going to cost us? What is the renewal period? Training requirement(s)?
Currently everything is free. Must we pay to exercise our constitutional right?

The starategy leading us down the path of incrementalism