HPRB November 17, 2015 Meeting Thread

[Schipperke]

But still got their permit. LR was all over those threads dropping negativity bombs.....

... But still got their permit.

 

[Gryphon]

A few more thoughts about last night's HPRB meeting.

. . . Second, one of the assertions made by the Maryland State Police was that a retired CIA Officer, who had all kinds of other so called "G&S" under Maryland's current permitting scheme, should not be allowed to exercise his right of self defense because he maintained an abbreviated job history under his LinkedIn profile.

I was lost as to why some HPRB members seemed to focus on the MSP's view that the applicant somehow forfeited his right to self defense simply because he maintained a LinkedIn profile.

I was thinking the same thing. This is little more than an extension of the "don't go to the mall," or the "your best weapon against a stalker is a camera" mentality we have heard. Sure as an aside you might question one's judgment to post your ex CIA operative status on a LinkedIn page, but that has nothing to do with whether he has a palpable need, G&S reason, or fundamental right to self-defense and should get a permit.

Why should someone that served their country and is proud of it be penalized just because their prior employment, for whatever reason, is now in the public domain. They should take applicants as they come, and not penalize them based on their subjective beliefs about whether they exercised good judgment or not. I suppose he shouldn't have ever taken a job with the CIA and then he wouldn't need a permit. Maybe the next Medal of Honor awardee should decline because appearing at the White House would put him in the public domain.

 

[rambling_one]

Could you please expand on the bolded parts? What was his smoking gun revelation? Why do you think he's a shoe-in?

Thanks.

The Colonel's testimony was chuck full of reason...MSP failed to perform mandatory functions. I believe the Board wants MSP to clean up its act (in all instances) and in the end will issue to the good doctor. I've been wrong before, but... .

 

[AntiGun]

Exactly on the personal protection issue dblas.

And Delegate Fisher's inquiry was certainly misguided (he ought to be flogged for stupidity), but
it was limited to the power of the Governor to define G&S.
In this regard, AAG Rowe's response letter (which is not a formal opinion of the Attorney General and carries no legal authority)
did not argue that the Superintendent isn't authorized by statute to define G&S,
nor did she address any post 2005 2A jurisprudence. She too is apparently stuck in pre-2005 just as the MSP.

That's the way I read it. The governor can't dictate G&S but he can give a nudge in the right direction to the superintendent who does control it. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't. I suspect it will never be publicly spoken about.

 

[rambling_one]

A few more thoughts about last night's HPRB meeting.

First, I believe we set an attendance record, at 20 observers. I would like to see this increase each successive meeting.

Second, one of the assertions made by the Maryland State Police was that a retired CIA Officer, who had all kinds of other so called "G&S" under Maryland's current permitting scheme, should not be allowed to exercise his right of self defense because he maintained an abbreviated job history under his LinkedIn profile.

I was lost as to why some HPRB members seemed to focus on the MSP's view that the applicant somehow forfeited his right to self defense simply because he maintained a LinkedIn profile.

Does a woman surrender the right not to be sexually assaulted because she wears a dress, instead of baggy sweatpants and an over sized sweater? Of course not.

Does a Law Enforcement Officer forfeit the right to self defense because he choose that as his or her profession? No.

Should a business owner lose his Maryland Handgun Permit because he or she advertises their product or service, or openly accepts cash?

Maryland's permitting scheme is moronic in conception, indefensible in purpose and unlawful in its execution.

One simply cant click somewhere to help us end this stupidity. Nor will complaints in an internet forum help much in advancing our shared cause.

One has to invest their time and money to end this ridiculousness.

You get the government you deserve.

Keep saying it loud enough and perhaps just maybe the concept will sink in.

 

[trailman]

I got a couple of pesky questions:


I thought the Governors appointments to this board were suppose to make this all better? I mean isn't that what we were told was his BIG contribution?

Second it appears to me that the MSP are still the problem here and now we are starting to turn on the formerly great choice for Sup MSP. Isn't this organization supposed to be beholden to the Governor.

 

[montoya32]

Just so you guys know. The info posted on this very forum is being read by some of the board members and even Pallozzi and the Governor. We are making great headway by educating ourselves as well as those who are watching us.

As far as the comments about the retired CIA member's social media habits, I believe they thought it was counter to the warning released due to the breach of information. I agree, someone's public or not so public profile is not an indication of their need for self-defense. If that were the case, a normal citizen could make a big enough splash and be looked at like a semi-celebrity. Also, the retired CIA member still performed consulting services, so his "professional" social media profile included work history to legitimize his current business.

 

[rambling_one]

My requested date change was given an extension until Dec. 5th. Voted 3 for and 1 against.

I think you meant the 15th, Tim?

 

[montoya32]

I think you meant the 15th, Tim?

Sorry, December 1st.

 

[rambling_one]

Agreed. Last night's meeting, although still a mess, was definitely more professional than any I have witnessed.

Let me preface my comments by saying that I know that all the board members are new, but the one thing that stands out for me is the apparent lack of understanding on how things work that they are supposed to be the final arbiter. In no particular order, and not just from last night.

1. What LEOSA is and how it works.
2. Teachers aren't first responders.
3. LinkedIn is a site for professionals and business people to network. Of course the spook is going to put who he worked for and what he did on there and the account predated the document dump from the senator from California.
4. They have no sense of timeline regarding 10/1/13. They were completely confused how one applicant could have a Designated Collector letter and then be prohibited for a misdemeanor offense.
5. Confusing a signed copy of a book that mentions an applicant's name in the signing with the applicant being named in the book's text.


Mrs. Stove is the same way, she's intelligent and very good at her job, but kind of clueless as to how the world works.

Honestly, I know they are trying but it would scare the crap out of me if I had a case in the near future with these guys.

Her comment may have been made along the lines of what I've often been heard to say; to wit, When under attack, you become the first responder.

 

[navycraig]

Dblas could probably elucidate better than I.
The colonel went to great lengths to point out how MSP had ignored him and either delayed or failed to follow through on parts of his app(background check, references, etc.)

The board had a problem overturning MSP with the process being "incomplete." During the short recess some people made him aware of some information that would render the board's trepidation moot. Such as the fact that a cjis check WAS done. IDK what the exact circumstances were, but the board sounded as if they had already made up their mind during their "closed session" and did not take any time to consider the applicants final statement.

The reason he's a shoe-in is because he has it all together. He has every reason in the world, WAY above and beyond, to get a permit. The only reason they delayed him is because the board feels that the MSP deserves more time to fully complete his background check.

The Colonel's testimony was chuck full of reason...MSP failed to perform mandatory functions. I believe the Board wants MSP to clean up its act (in all instances) and in the end will issue to the good doctor. I've been wrong before, but... .

Got it. Thanks. For me it begs the question as to what his "reason(s)" were, but I guess I'd know that had I been at the meeting. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[rambling_one]

Sorry, December 1st.

What's new...I had two choices and picked the wrong one.

 

[DC-W]

I got a couple of pesky questions:


I thought the Governors appointments to this board were suppose to make this all better? I mean isn't that what we were told was his BIG contribution?

Second it appears to me that the MSP are still the problem here and now we are starting to turn on the formerly great choice for Sup MSP. Isn't this organization supposed to be beholden to the Governor.

The board members have helped tremendously. There's multiple threads of evidence showing as much. Administrative hurdles still need to be bested and as you note, the MSP needs some wrenching for things to work the way they should. The rust that's accumulated after decades of administrations with zero regard for the law, code, rights, proper procedure, etc... will take time to grind out, buff, and paint over.

As painful as the process is to watch, it pales to what the board once was only a short time ago.

The new Chair means there's more to come.

 

[Schipperke]

One has to invest their time and money to end this ridiculousness.

You get the government you deserve.

That is indeed the situation. The problem being it takes a real fanatic with deep pockets. After seeing various wins of other appellants get overturned, not exactly a motivator. If you must have a gun secreted, Mayflower or Bekins can fix it for a lot cheaper.

 

[montoya32]

I got a couple of pesky questions:


I thought the Governors appointments to this board were suppose to make this all better? I mean isn't that what we were told was his BIG contribution?

Second it appears to me that the MSP are still the problem here and now we are starting to turn on the formerly great choice for Sup MSP. Isn't this organization supposed to be beholden to the Governor.

The board members have helped tremendously. There's multiple threads of evidence showing as much. Administrative hurdles still need to be bested and as you note, the MSP needs some wrenching for things to work the way they should. The rust that's accumulated after decades of administrations with zero regard for the law, code, rights, proper procedure, etc... will take time to grind out, buff, and paint over.

As painful as the process is to watch, it pales to what the board once was only a short time ago.

The new Chair means there's more to come.

A Aron, is that you?

As DC-W stated, the process and meetings you see today are a night/day difference from just 6 months ago, let alone 12-24 months ago.

Now we have regular bi-weekly meetings. There are audio recordings, although I only have evidence of one set, there are minutes being kept, no matter how amateurish they are, and the MSP is actually being required to back up their over reaching and lack of duty to the public. With the new board and now new chairman in place, the board and meetings will continue in a positive and constructive direction, but now the MSP needs to answer for their shameful failure to fulfill their obligations and follow procedure and LAW!

There are members of the MSP who have blatantly ignored laws, created "laws" and ignorantly disrespected the rights of some permit applicants. This is what we know, how much more has been going on that we don't know yet or can't find out? I have no empathy for someone who has a job and purposefully fails to do it to the detriment of others.

Not only did we hear publicly that MSP was refusing to process applications, but they were keeping the application fees. Isn't this a crime? What were they using the funds for if they were not processing applications? Anyone involved should be disciplined at minimum and no longer in the licensing division

Anyone who was told their application would not be processed needs to file an internal affairs complaint, NOW!

Internal Affairs Complaint Form

 

[Tomcat]

Sorry, December 1st.

2 more weeks

 

[montoya32]

2 more weeks

Recurring theme. lol

 

[Schipperke]

2 more weeks

The Thrilla in Pikesvill'a

 

[Stoveman]

The Thrilla in Pikesvill'a

The real thrill is making it there and back in one piece.....

 

[Inigoes]

Just so you guys know. The info posted on this very forum is being read by some of the board members and even Pallozzi and the Governor. We are making great headway by educating ourselves as well as those who are watching us.

As far as the comments about the retired CIA member's social media habits, I believe they thought it was counter to the warning released due to the breach of information. I agree, someone's public or not so public profile is not an indication of their need for self-defense. If that were the case, a normal citizen could make a big enough splash and be looked at like a semi-celebrity. Also, the retired CIA member still performed consulting services, so his "professional" social media profile included work history to legitimize his current business.

Some of the board members, Pallozzi, and the Governor



Give me my HPRB review time that I have been waiting for!