MSP being ridiculous about my CCW app.

teratos · Feb 25, 2015

SRD said:
Is this for a new permit or renewal? Sorry if I missed it.

Initial permit

montoya32 · Feb 25, 2015

teratos said:
Initial permit

Correct.

dblas · Feb 25, 2015

It is being worked on.

SRD · Feb 25, 2015

teratos said:
Initial permit

montoya32 said:
Correct.

Thanks,just getting facts straight as I follow this.

ma_deuce · Feb 25, 2015

mxrider said:
That is actually a good idea.

Excellent idea. A lot of people in gov't don't understand private business, how it works or is organized. They may have no conception of any relationship among individuals and entities other than employee/employer - independent contractor's not something they can understand. Make the explanation as simple as possible - so the average 5th grader could understand it. You're not dealing with realtors - or lawyers.

protegeV · Feb 25, 2015

So I guess by similar logic a bank owner would need a letter signed the the Federal Reserve chairman and a Dr running his own practice would need a letter from the surgeon general? :bigwhoop:

FoxtrotAviator · Feb 25, 2015

I'm just curious. I understand you are a business owner. Is that what you are using for your G&S ? Or are you specifying certain aspects of your work profile as your G&S? Such as Handling large sums of cash, deposits , etc. or personally responsible for items of high value. Dangerous work atmosphere, etc.
You may have listed this in your other posts. I just didn't see any.
I'm just trying to get a better understanding of your particular situation in this JOKE of a state we live in.

montoya32 · Feb 25, 2015

FoxtrotAviator said:
I'm just curious. I understand you are a business owner. Is that what you are using for your G&S ? Or are you specifying certain aspects of your work profile as your G&S? Such as Handling large sums of cash, deposits , etc. or personally responsible for items of high value. Dangerous work atmosphere, etc.
You may have listed this in your other posts. I just didn't see any.
I'm just trying to get a better understanding of your particular situation in this JOKE of a state we live in.

Just being a business owner does not qualify you. I listed some scenarios and activities I conduct that are generally accepted as "G&S".

Straightshooter · Feb 25, 2015

If your potential buyers are anything like my last four potential renters, a copy of their court records should be enough all by itself. I had people with everything from traffic violations to Attempted Murder.

danb · Feb 25, 2015

Attempted murder? Well, I hope you rented to them! They sure could use a break.

Traveler · Feb 25, 2015

danb said:
Attempted murder? Well, I hope you rented to them! They sure could use a break.

Because they are no good at their chosen vocation? Since it was just attempted?

rseymorejr · Feb 25, 2015

Traveler said:
Because they are no good at their chosen vocation? Since it was just attempted?

All they need are good jobs, just like ISIS

jkeiler · Feb 25, 2015

What is interesting about this to me is that they pretty carefully create a legal record in cases in which a reasonable G&S has been established, but they still will not issue a permit. Thus, the sympathetic view of the trooper, who reasonably thinks the permit ought to be granted, but is not involved in the actual politics.

Many applicants really don't meet the G&S under MD law (whether you agree with the law or not, it is what it is.) Those applicants seem to be summarily refused.

On the other hand, there are those that do reasonably meet a G&S standard, in which case the board comes up with a further thin legal rationale for refusal. Here, it is demanding that the employer certify necessity. In my case, though I had established good G&S based on threats with police reports, etc., it was that these had occurred at my residence, where I was already "legally permitted" to carry a firearm.

This won't change until the personnel on the board are changed, and/or the new MSP superintendent actually decides to apply the law as it is written. What irks me as much as anything, is the Orwellian application of G&S in this state, which allows diminution of rights under the color of cleverly worded legalisms.

JSW · Feb 25, 2015

hey Tim you could always come up here, Heck I would even let you do the gun shows with me, maybe even give you a spot for a Realtor sign ( small one) on the table.

I understand your pain , the current police don't even want the retired ones to have guns. they make them jump thru some big hoops just to get their permits.

Straightshooter · Feb 25, 2015

danb said:
Attempted murder? Well, I hope you rented to them! They sure could use a break.

I am not joking. (Markowski, Thomas Jr) Luckily I did the interview and gave my rejection over the phone. I can't imagine being alone in a vacant house with a stranger that you know nothing about.

montoya32 · Feb 25, 2015

jkeiler said:
What is interesting about this to me is that they pretty carefully create a legal record in cases in which a reasonable G&S has been established, but they still will not issue a permit. Thus, the sympathetic view of the trooper, who reasonably thinks the permit ought to be granted, but is not involved in the actual politics.

Many applicants really don't meet the G&S under MD law (whether you agree with the law or not, it is what it is.) Those applicants seem to be summarily refused.

On the other hand, there are those that do reasonably meet a G&S standard, in which case the board comes up with a further thin legal rationale for refusal. Here, it is demanding that the employer certify necessity. In my case, though I had established good G&S based on threats with police reports, etc., it was that these had occurred at my residence, where I was already "legally permitted" to carry a firearm.

This won't change until the personnel on the board are changed, and/or the new MSP superintendent actually decides to apply the law as it is written. What irks me as much as anything, is the Orwellian application of G&S in this state, which allows diminution of rights under the color of cleverly worded legalisms.

I understand what you are saying, but they are not my employer.

redeemed.man · Feb 25, 2015

montoya32 said:
Long and short for those who haven't seen my other posts, I am self-employed(Realtor). They want the brokerage whom I am affiliated with to write a letter that states they "want" me to be armed while working and affiliated with this broker. The brokerage will not permit my manager to sign such a letter and I completely understand why. I am furious as I meet all of the "G&S" reasons and my interviewing trooper said I looked like a standard case for them.

IT'S ON!

I would have signed for you.

I am not in the real estate business, how hard is it for you to get a brokers license?

montoya32 · Feb 25, 2015

boundlessdyad said:
I would have signed for you.

I am not in the real estate business, how hard is it for you to get a brokers license?

Not an overnight thing. Lots of schooling and insurance and some other things.

rseymorejr · Feb 25, 2015

I think it's ridiculous that the state wants you to rely on the whim of a random third party to determine whether you are "allowed" to exercise your rights.

davsco · Feb 25, 2015

Tim, do you have your own actual company (LLC or s corp or something) and if so have that company write your letter?

MSP being ridiculous about my CCW app.

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