MSP being ridiculous about my CCW app.

[Chris]

I AM self employed. My broker is not my employer. They are taking this to a place that is not specified and adding the requirement of my broker "requesting/wanting" me to be armed. This is exactly comparable to a home improvement contractor needing a letter from a home owner asking the contractor to be armed while working with them.

But as I stated in my earlier post you are a person that is under contract with the broker, you need to take the broker out of the equation. MSP will not issue a permit if in your case if the broker will not OK the carry. While you may be an independent agent you are working under the broker's licsense hence as far as MSP is concerned making the broker your managing entity. Now if you are a corporation/LLC, you now become the managing entity not the broker. You then as president would approve yourself to carry for your corporation doing business with the broker. Again it's all about liability. MSP wants to be able to say in court if they become part of a wrongful dead suit "They complied with their regulations" and approved the permit according to the application submitted and investigation of said person/ business. It's not the answer many want to hear but that's the way it is in Maryland. The only way this will change is either change the law or litigation to read SHALL instead of MAY. Chris

 

[csanc123]

MSP wants to be able to say in court if they become part of a wrongful dead suit "They complied with their regulations" and approved the permit according to the application submitted and investigation of said person/ business. It's not the answer many want to hear but that's the way it is in Maryland. The only way this will change is either change the law or litigation to read SHALL instead of MAY. Chris

Um.....I highly doubt they are looking this far ahead. I call BS.

 

[tridentmp30]

I am a general contractor with a business license and a MHIC. I am a LLC as well. These are all the reasons I am self employed and own my company. Do you possess any sort of business license? Or are you LLC or Incorporated? Just asking. You said you were the same as a home improvement contractor, but unless you are properly licensed and have a trade name then i would say your not like one. You may be like a subcontractor, who works for a Home Improvement contractor. Big Difference.

 

[Bald Fat Guy]

While I can follow the reasoning that MSP is using , there is a strong case that it is misaplied as relates here regarding the RE biz. I would offer the comaprison of requiring a new car dealer to get a letter of permision from General Motors.

Plan A would be to apeal to the Board , and then file suit ala Woolard if again denied. Of course sueing would probably be more expensive and time consuming than the Plan B of creating an additional layer of legal entity.

Without reigniting several other discusions , I would presume THIS application was already in the pipeline , and the new MDSP Spt not yet confirmed , nor any new internal guidelines yet promongulated. Guessing the timing can be a crap shoot between keeping current app administratively alive , and reappling later.

 

[montoya32]

While I can follow the reasoning that MSP is using , there is a strong case that it is misaplied as relates here regarding the RE biz. I would offer the comaprison of requiring a new car dealer to get a letter of permision from General Motors.

Plan A would be to apeal to the Board , and then file suit ala Woolard if again denied. Of course sueing would probably be more expensive and time consuming than the Plan B of creating an additional layer of legal entity.

Without reigniting several other discusions , I would presume THIS application was already in the pipeline , and the new MDSP Spt not yet confirmed , nor any new internal guidelines yet promongulated. Guessing the timing can be a crap shoot between keeping current app administratively alive , and reappling later.

I applied in mid November.

 

[Blaster229]

While I can follow the reasoning that MSP is using , there is a strong case that it is misaplied as relates here regarding the RE biz. I would offer the comaprison of requiring a new car dealer to get a letter of permision from General Motors.

It's not even that deep. Car salesman has to have a license with the MVA which is only good if you work for a car dealership. If you leave that dealership and go to another, you need to reapply and get your license sponsored under that new dealership. Typically if someone has to "sponsor" some sort of professional license, you are "employed" under them.

Real estate agent goes to another company, then the old broker is not going to hold that person's license, why should they? Can't be any different than any other professional license needed in the state in order to "sell".

If an agent sells a property for said broker, that agency must make some sort of profit from that sale, right? They split the commission with the agent, thus they are PAYING that person. Why hold a license for someone just for the hell of it?

I see nowhere that this is "self employed" situation under the G&S rules.

 

[kenpo333]

Would it help to have the brokerage write a letter stating that you are self employed and they have no authority over the question of you being armed?

I believe that you need to go this route. You receive a 1099 and not w2. You need to state that you are a subcontractor. Another way to have done this was to have formed an llc or sub chapter S and then have another member (Like your wife) to right the letter. Problem with most realtors is that you get paid by checks and don't handled enough cash like rental agent. Your own corp could have handled this. Nothing says that you can't get checks cashed and deposit it.

 

[KevinK]

Long and short for those who haven't seen my other posts, I am self-employed(Realtor). They want the brokerage whom I am affiliated with to write a letter that states they "want" me to be armed while working and affiliated with this broker. The brokerage will not permit my manager to sign such a letter and I completely understand why. I am furious as I meet all of the "G&S" reasons and my interviewing trooper said I looked like a standard case for them.

IT'S ON!

I understand what you are saying, but they are not my employer.

I do not. I am just self employed. I can go that route, but that is additional time and money. Also, my real estate license has my broker's name on it and that is what the MSP is referring to. By state real estate commission law, I need to reference the broker I am affiliated with on my license.

My manager is willing to sign off, but corporate, which HE is an employee of, will not allow him to endorse a letter on the company's behalf. This is a direct quote from my broker of record(person who actually holds the broker's license for my office), "agents that we have who are licensed to carry obtain that status on their own. XYZ company does not get involved in that process."

He's an independent contractor, his days/hours are not set by anyone other than himself. He is 100% commission based and receives no W2. Issue is, he ONLY receives compensation through his Broker of Record.
Why would his broker (actually an EMPLOYEE) of the RE company need to "sign off" for the MSP to issue a permit? Why do they need someone else in the loop? Are they (the MSP) remotely liable if he were to shoot up his office next week with his new carry permit?

I fail to understand how.

I AM self employed. My broker is not my employer. They are taking this to a place that is not specified and adding the requirement of my broker "requesting/wanting" me to be armed. This is exactly comparable to a home improvement contractor needing a letter from a home owner asking the contractor to be armed while working with them.

It's not even that deep. Car salesman has to have a license with the MVA which is only good if you work for a car dealership. If you leave that dealership and go to another, you need to reapply and get your license sponsored under that new dealership. Typically if someone has to "sponsor" some sort of professional license, you are "employed" under them.

Real estate agent goes to another company, then the old broker is not going to hold that person's license, why should they? Can't be any different than any other professional license needed in the state in order to "sell".

If an agent sells a property for said broker, that agency must make some sort of profit from that sale, right? They split the commission with the agent, thus they are PAYING that person. Why hold a license for someone just for the hell of it?

I see nowhere that this is "self employed" situation under the G&S rules.

Tim, I am on your side 100%. It seems this is a case of 'neither fish nor fowl'. Can you make any money without there being a broker involved. I bolded what is confusing to me in a bunch of posts above. The phrase "my manager" is throwing me off.

The bottom line is that Maryland/the GA/MSP really does not want any of the general public to have permits and they are making it as difficult as possible to get one.

 

[redeemed.man]

I believe that you need to go this route. You receive a 1099 and not w2. You need to state that you are a subcontractor. Another way to have done this was to have formed an llc or sub chapter S and then have another member (Like your wife) to right the letter. Problem with most realtors is that you get paid by checks and don't handled enough cash like rental agent. Your own corp could have handled this. Nothing says that you can't get checks cashed and deposit it.

There is absolutely zero need to make cash deposits. Plenty of business owners are approved for handling checks only. I do agree with you that it would ease the Maryland State Police Sergeant's mind if Tim had set up an LLC or incorporated.

 

[redeemed.man]

It's not even that deep. Car salesman has to have a license with the MVA which is only good if you work for a car dealership. If you leave that dealership and go to another, you need to reapply and get your license sponsored under that new dealership. Typically if someone has to "sponsor" some sort of professional license, you are "employed" under them.

Real estate agent goes to another company, then the old broker is not going to hold that person's license, why should they? Can't be any different than any other professional license needed in the state in order to "sell".

If an agent sells a property for said broker, that agency must make some sort of profit from that sale, right? They split the commission with the agent, thus they are PAYING that person. Why hold a license for someone just for the hell of it?

I see nowhere that this is "self employed" situation under the G&S rules.

Tim does have his own realtor license so he meets the professional license requirement. Other Realtors have gotten permits issued without this particular problem. The MSP sergeant is making things more difficult than they should be. There is a lot of inconsistency depending on who conducts your investigation. It certainly would be easier for Tim if he incorporated or formed a LLC but that does not make what the MSP is doing right.

 

[redeemed.man]

I am a general contractor with a business license and a MHIC. I am a LLC as well. These are all the reasons I am self employed and own my company. Do you possess any sort of business license? Or are you LLC or Incorporated? Just asking. You said you were the same as a home improvement contractor, but unless you are properly licensed and have a trade name then i would say your not like one. You may be like a subcontractor, who works for a Home Improvement contractor. Big Difference.

Subcontractors can own and operate their own business and qualify for G & S. As a matter of fact mhic subcontractors are required to have their own professional license. A trade name registration and/or LLC or incorporated status certainly does help when you get an ignorant trooper doing your investigation. I agree with you that a mhic licensed salesperson would have a hard time getting approved under current G & S rules without the signature of the general contractor. That does not change the fact that Tim is indeed self employed as would be most mhic salespersons.

 

[Blaster229]

Why does " Tim Montoya real estate" need another broker's name on it?

 

[montoya32]

Why does " Tim Montoya real estate" need another broker's name on it?

In the state of MD, you must "affiliate" with a licensed broker. I cannot conduct real estate sales on my own. It does not make me an employee, just an independent contractor.

 

[Mike]

This seems like just another way for Marylandistan find some administratively trivial issue to deny 2A rights. I'm still kind of new here and don't have access to all the forums on here, but how much documentation exists on these forums that can be used to support a class action lawsuit against the state? Is that even a viable option for these cases?

 

[redeemed.man]

Why does " Tim Montoya real estate" need another broker's name on it?

Other Realtors have been given handgun permits without broker letters. I hear what you are saying but this is a specific action by a specific trooper that differs from many others.

 

[Muleskinner]

Absurd. You are self-employed.

You might want to consider changing your Avatar. The Hogan administration may not appreciate the skull when you are asking for a permit. Just from a PR perspective.....

Yes, his avatar might prevent him from obtaining permission to do what the Constitution already gives him permission to do..NOT the liberal gun grabbers in Annapolis...NOT the absurd 'people" who run the licensing division at MSP and CERTAINLY not the sheeple over at Maryland Shall Issue who are happy with the status quo and don't want to rock the boat....

 

[redeemed.man]

Yes, his avatar might prevent him from obtaining permission to do what the Constitution already gives him permission to do..NOT the liberal gun grabbers in Annapolis...NOT the absurd 'people" who run the licensing division at MSP and CERTAINLY not the sheeple over at Maryland Shall Issue who are happy with the status quo and don't want to rock the boat....

Tell us how you really feel. LOL

That being said you are largely spot on.

 

[montoya32]

Yes, his avatar might prevent him from obtaining permission to do what the Constitution already gives him permission to do..NOT the liberal gun grabbers in Annapolis...NOT the absurd 'people" who run the licensing division at MSP and CERTAINLY not the sheeple over at Maryland Shall Issue who are happy with the status quo and don't want to rock the boat....

Teratos' suggestion was not not intended to condemn my choice of pictures. He was just looking from the other side of the fence. He promptly vomited, showered and said 5 Hail Mary's.

 

[moojersey]

I'm feeling alot more frustration lately on these boards especially in regard to the awful MD permit process. Anyone want to get out the pitch forks and torches and go to state house in Annapolis?

 

[Jaybeez]

i think this is why you're getting the slow roll Tim

Watch "Maryland Gun Owners Being Robbed" on YouTube
Maryland Gun Owners Being Robbed: http://youtu.be/yySHcs-lWIU