Shooting with Night Vision? NGVs or NV scope? IR lasers?

[OLM-Medic]

if you have sufficient IR illumination for darker times, 2+ will get you by. if you have the cash, though, 3 isn't too much more spendy and worth every penny.

i'm likely putting an Armasight CO-MR on my .300BLK at some point, so i can use it day or night on porkages. considering the price is a small fraction of what a decent gen 3 clip-on runs, i'm satisfied with 2+ for that role. i have a pard in the industry keeping an eye out for a gently-used peq-15 for me too.

Hm, I'd like to pick your brain a bit.

The built in IR illuminators on the PVS-7 should do the job eh?

I don't need to ability to have clarity enough to read books in zero darkness. I just want to be able to navigate and make out objects at night, which gen 1 is pretty much useless for.

 

[Jaybeez]

Gen 3. all the way. used gen 3 runs 1700-2000. new/refurb start at 2300. its silly to buy gen 2.

took my buddy out last friday night and we hit the fields. visibility was amazing, but even with gen 3 under full tree canopy ir was needed. but ir washes/dims out anything not illuminated by the beam, and you lose visibility on your peripheral and at distance.

my goal was to long range test one of my new DIY two color aiming lasers, but it failed horribly. didnt even turn on. I dont know what happened, unless it got left on in the safe and overheated. i'll have to test the second one to see how long it takes to overheat.

first 100 yard test 6 months ago
http://youtu.be/eY1-QFxOWLY

 

[Jaybeez]

Hm, I'd like to pick your brain a bit.

The built in IR illuminators on the PVS-7 should do the job eh?

I don't need to ability to have clarity enough to read books in zero darkness. I just want to be able to navigate and make out objects at night, which gen 1 is pretty much useless for.

built in ir will allow you to walk down a hallway or steps in a basement with no lights. navigating outdoors its almost useless.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Thanks for the replies.

My thinking was this... I have a $5K shrike to buy, so spending $2-3K on NV was not going to happen for a while. I have no real use for NV other than if we have a night shoot at the AGC. Even if with Gen I, I think it will give me a chance to see if night range shooting is any fun. I should be able to mount this on the top of my M14 or M4 or Shrike when it comes. Rather than buy some commercial NV that will drop in value, I figure these are actually increasing in value due to it being a collectible too. I have a MG3 mount and I am finish up my MG42 semi auto build soon. So it will be correct on there too and I have access to a FA MG42...

So for testing work, this seemed to be the way to go and if it does not work out, I should be able to sell it and recover most, if not all my money.

In the future I think I will look for Gen III NVG helmet mounted with optional gun mount. That seems to be the way to go.... saying with little to no experience...

 

[d_c]

yeah? I've used my friends and wow I just cannot resist wanting one. I doubt I would actually find it THAT useful, but I want it.

Well, all I can say is that I love my PVS-14. Also don't get to use it as much as I'd like (yet) but still seem to find lots of reasons to pull it out after dark. Can't speak to the Gen II vs. Gen III, I've only used the Gen III set.

 

[Jaybeez]

Thanks for the replies.

My thinking was this... I have a $5K shrike to buy, so spending $2-3K on NV was not going to happen for a while. I have no real use for NV other than if we have a night shoot at the AGC. Even if with Gen I, I think it will give me a chance to see if night range shooting is any fun. I should be able to mount this on the top of my M14 or M4 or Shrike when it comes. Rather than buy some commercial NV that will drop in value, I figure these are actually increasing in value due to it being a collectible too. I have a MG3 mount and I am finish up my MG42 semi auto build soon. So it will be correct on there too and I have access to a FA MG42...

So for testing work, this seemed to be the way to go and if it does not work out, I should be able to sell it and recover most, if not all my money.

In the future I think I will look for Gen III NVG helmet mounted with optional gun mount. That seems to be the way to go.... saying with little to no experience...

I dont know about increasing in value. it might hold its value adjusted for inflation... if competitive digital systems dont make advances in the near future... however I believe they will.

I think you'll still get your money's worth out of it.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Well, we finally got out for some night shoot testing with NV Scopes last night.

Started at 31 degrees at 5:30 and dropped to 25 by 8:00pm. We were suppose to have a one other guy with some more advanced NVGs and Thermal but he was a no show. So that left me with an AR15 and Z51 NV Scope and my buddy with a FNC with the same Z51 Scope.





Figured that seeing impacts (without tracers) would be the hard part, we both bought some steel plate targets. I decided the Osama Target would be appropriate.



We learned a fair amount. First that we need to get the keys to the club house so we can turn off the motion lights! It was really cool shooting over all. I did not expect the muzzle blast to be so big in the NV Scope. I can see that a suppressor will be the way to go in for the future. I don't mean its required but sure would be nice! Watching bullets hit steel in NV is kind of like watching fireworks and pretty cool. We were shooting at 100 yards. Seeing the impacts was not really possible unless you were hitting steel. So sighting in the scopes is really critical. I am thinking Gen III might have helped here. Also we had a cheap Gen I Monocular that was only good enough to see basic shapes. Some magnification will certainly be helpful at 100 yards with Gen I.



That does make me wonder if the Helmet NVG is really the way I want to go. I do really think I would want some magnification at 100 yards with NV. I do like that the PVS 14s (1x) can quick mount to the gun. I need more experience in this area I think to really make up my mind.

On the bad side... I had bad luck with optics. As my NV got below 32 degrees it started to slowly die. I took the batteries out thinking it might be them. I put them under my arm and warmed them. Re installed and nothing. After a few mins when the heat from the batteries had a chance to move into the NV.... it started working again. Then slowly died again as it got colder. Got the NV home and it works fine.... However I clearly have an issue. The my buddy with an identical NV Scope had no issues.

Anyway, next will be time to invite the whole club (MDTCA). After we get that down, maybe time to invite anyone from the AGC. Sorry for the crappy cell phone pictures.... but I am just getting NV down... not getting you pictures with it yet. Finished off the last pumpkin with two rounds of 223... exit wounds shown.

 

[Jaybeez]

Remember, the pvs14's with gen 3 tubes arent rated for a lot of recoil. Usually 223/5.56 is fine with filmed tubes though. They also accept a quick detach 3x magnifier, they work both weapon and head mounted.

I have no idea on your cold related problems. first thing is to try new batteries and make sure the contacts in the battery tube are clean and corrosion free.

 

[ericoak]

Looks fun, too bad it was so cold.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Remember, the pvs14's with gen 3 tubes arent rated for a lot of recoil. Usually 223/5.56 is fine with filmed tubes though. They also accept a quick detach 3x magnifier, they work both weapon and head mounted.

I have no idea on your cold related problems. first thing is to try new batteries and make sure the contacts in the battery tube are clean and corrosion free.

Yeah I saw that about PVS14s. Looks like I might not want to get the latest model just for that reason. I did not know that on the magnifier. I will have to check that out as the time gets nearer to purchase one.

I tried 3 sets of batteries in the field. I also tried batteries in another unit that was working. Its not the C cell batteries.... 100% sure. I will check the contacts but 95% sure thats not it as its working fine all the rest of the time.

It was fun and cold. However with hunting type gear/jackets, it was not to bad.

 

[Jaybeez]

Yeah I saw that about PVS14s. Looks like I might not want to get the latest model just for that reason. I did not know that on the magnifier. I will have to check that out as the time gets nearer to purchase one.

I tried 3 sets of batteries in the field. I also tried batteries in another unit that was working. Its not the C cell batteries.... 100% sure. I will check the contacts but 95% sure thats not it as its working fine all the rest of the time.

It was fun and cold. However with hunting type gear/jackets, it was not to bad.

those old scopes were bad back in the days of alkaline batteries, which tend to leak when left inserted in storage. so my first guess would be metal contacts in the battery compartment that are corroded and or contracting in the cold. battery compartment problems are fairly common in old devices.

 

[Norton]

I know some people are getting tired of the continual questions, but for people just getting into this area, this is a huge investment with a lot more questions than answer for some of us.

Was checking out the civilian legal Class 1 IR lasers and saw this one.

https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-cqbl-1-class1-ir-laser/

Steiner is a reputable company and I like the compactness on this.

They go on and on about it being good for SBRs, but is there anything that makes it unsuitable for a typical M4gery?

 

[Jaybeez]

I know some people are getting tired of the continual questions, but for people just getting into this area, this is a huge investment with a lot more questions than answer for some of us.

Was checking out the civilian legal Class 1 IR lasers and saw this one.

https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-cqbl-1-class1-ir-laser/

Steiner is a reputable company and I like the compactness on this.

They go on and on about it being good for SBRs, but is there anything that makes it unsuitable for a typical M4gery?

i think they are just trying to highlight its size and compactness, when historically ir laser devices were much much larger.
its so expensive for just a laser, slaved or not. you should be able to find a used one on the arf ee if you keeo your eyes open for a few months.

Have you looked at the laser max uni-ir or crimson trace railmaster ir? both can be had for under 200. both are small enough to use on a pistol, but suitable for rifles too. with the low power of class 1 civilian lasers spending much more is a diminishing return.

 

[d_c]

I know some people are getting tired of the continual questions, but for people just getting into this area, this is a huge investment with a lot more questions than answer for some of us.

Was checking out the civilian legal Class 1 IR lasers and saw this one.

https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-cqbl-1-class1-ir-laser/

Steiner is a reputable company and I like the compactness on this.

They go on and on about it being good for SBRs, but is there anything that makes it unsuitable for a typical M4gery?

That's a nice laser, I had one for a short time on my carbine. Should run just fine on about any AR. Note that on occasion optics planet has a better price, the one I had I got for $637 plus 10% off red dot and laser deal so $575 shipped.

 

[forkauto]

This is the one I just got as it has an IR illuminator as well

http://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-dbal-d2-class-1-ir-laser/

 

[5.56blaster]

Hm, I'd like to pick your brain a bit.

The built in IR illuminators on the PVS-7 should do the job eh?

I don't need to ability to have clarity enough to read books in zero darkness. I just want to be able to navigate and make out objects at night, which gen 1 is pretty much useless for.

The IR on the 7 is good for inside of an APC or for reading and that's really about all. In 0 darkness it would be good if you needed to crawl in a tunnel and so on but to go walkabout you would not well off. BUT you need very little light with the 7 to make it a good unit. I used them for years in the field and once you get use to how things look while wearing them your pretty good to go.

 

[ericoak]

I know some people are getting tired of the continual questions, but for people just getting into this area, this is a huge investment with a lot more questions than answer for some of us.

Was checking out the civilian legal Class 1 IR lasers and saw this one.

https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-cqbl-1-class1-ir-laser/

Steiner is a reputable company and I like the compactness on this.

They go on and on about it being good for SBRs, but is there anything that makes it unsuitable for a typical M4gery?

Forum rules state Admin and Mods can ask as many questions as they want.

 

[Norton]

i think they are just trying to highlight its size and compactness, when historically ir laser devices were much much larger.
its so expensive for just a laser, slaved or not. you should be able to find a used one on the arf ee if you keeo your eyes open for a few months.

Have you looked at the laser max uni-ir or crimson trace railmaster ir? both can be had for under 200. both are small enough to use on a pistol, but suitable for rifles too. with the low power of class 1 civilian lasers spending much more is a diminishing return.

will check those out. This rifle is getting too heavy already, but it is what it is when you want to have lots of options.

 

[Norton]

Forum rules state Admin and Mods can ask as many questions as they want.

Don't want to wear out my welcome

 

[Jaybeez]

will check those out. This rifle is getting too heavy already, but it is what it is when you want to have lots of options.

the laser max uni-ir is about the size of 2 AA batteries, and has an available tape switch that can be purchased for another $50.

slaved laser have 1 selling point for civilian lasers, being able to sight in during the day. but you can accomolish the same thing with a cheap red laser and a rest.