The 2014 talk

[ShallNotInfringe]

Another ball buster thread, eh?

In a way this is good. Following the "form, storm, norm, perform" philosophy, we have moved to step 2.

Grassroots movements are inherently difficult.

We need to agree that surrendering now is not an option. If you think it is, get outta the way. Trying to convince others to do that is pointless.

Thank you for carrying some water. Sincerely, all efforts are appreciated, if you can't fight on, we get it. No ill will intended, but naysaying is NOT going to get the job done.

** Don't retreat! Reload! ** (pretty soon you'll be reloading twice as often)

 

[tsmith1499]

I am not "for higher taxes", I think taxes in this state are way to high, but I probably feel that way because I get no benefit from my taxes (aside from roads, I guess, but the roads aren't even well kept). I would be willing to pay the kind of taxes I am paying right now if we had things like universal healthcare and higher education. But we don't, so I'm not about to call for those things, as it would gut my paycheck, instead, my tax money is used on god knows what, cause we're certainly not seeing it here on the shore. And furthermore, its about to get a hell of a lot worse here when LWRC moves.

I like gay people, I think abortion is good, I live in the ghetto, I distrust and don't talk to the police, I am "working poor" (I make $266 a week at a full time job, well, I did, I think I lost my job yesterday), I don't have health insurance, I am not a christian, I don't care about how you came into this country.

There is no real appeal in conservativism to me. Aside from maybe lower taxes and their position on guns. But I'm not even necessarily "for" lower taxes, I only want them lower since apparently the legislature can't actually use those funds in ways that really help the public.


This kind of stuff is why you guys are loosing. I turn 25 next month, I have been employed since I was 17, I might be of mixed ethnic heritage but I generally see myself as/am seen as white, I am from a relatively rural/suburban area, I used to be the social base for conservatives, but it has no appeal to me anymore, nor to most people in my peer group (including the other gun owners). The few who are still inclined towards conservative positions usually find themselves as Libertarians. (and I could never agree with their economic policies)

Well since you say you don't know WHERE your tax money goes and you don't care HOW people got in this country, let me tell you of 1 example. Your tax money has gone, in some areas, for Day Worker Offices. This is where MOSTLY ILLEGALS go to get picked up for day labor. I CARE HOW people got in this country because of all the people that did it the RIGHT WAY AND WORKED FOR IT!! The ones that are here illegally need to LEAVE. I still don't understand for the life of me what part of ILLEGAL politicians don't understand. That's what is great about this country. We can disagree and can talk about it like adults.

 

[tsmith1499]

Another ball buster thread, eh?

In a way this is good. Following the "form, storm, norm, perform" philosophy, we have moved to step 2.

Grassroots movements are inherently difficult.

We need to agree that surrendering now is not an option. If you think it is, get outta the way. Trying to convince others to do that is pointless.

Thank you for carrying some water. Sincerely, all efforts are appreciated, if you can't fight on, we get it. No ill will intended, but naysaying is NOT going to get the job done.

** Don't retreat! Reload! ** (pretty soon you'll be reloading twice as often)

I see what you did there. Funny girl!!

 

[Sportstud4891]

The point is to prove that we can reach out and touch some of these reps so they'll start listening. Right now they don't care because they think they are safe from getting voted out.

Start removing a few of them, make sure they know it was us and they'll start giving us an ear.

 

[Cmoney]

Never taken a handout except that you advocate for state run healthcare and school tuition paid for by your neighbors.

You mean paid for by myself? I pay taxes too. We are going to be paying taxes either way, so tell me, if we're going to pay them, do want the current results, or do you want to at least get something out of the exchange?



Shoreshooter, not offended at all. I realised after I posted that my post kind of looks like my job is in jeopardy because of the bill, its not, thats just a coincedence, I think the gun companies are 100% in the right to move out of Maryland, though my heart certainly goes out to those who will be affected, I deployed to Iraq with a guard unit from Easton, I have friends who work for LWRC at the Matech plant here in Salisbury. I know people who will be affected by this directly, I wish that they did not have to loose their jobs, but I do think the companies are right for leaving, they should not contribute money to a state that abuses them.

 

[nedsurf]

The idea is vote them out to teach them a lesson; to listen to their constituents, not the governor. Whether the next batch are pro-2A isn't as important as whether they will listen to the people or not.

+1
In those districts where is is possible to elect a pro 2A rep., we do that. In those districts where the blue is deep and we will most likely get another gun grabbing rep., it is just for spite and to make them think twice. This is a long haul and I'm deeply committed to at least the 2014 cycle. Revenge, Deceit and treachery are the actions of the day. arrrrr matey!

 

[Verbotene]

We don't have gun rights to fight for anymore.

2014 is not about guns, its about "teaching them a lesson". Voting them out in 2014 does not get anything restored to us. And I'm not a conservative so what is the reason for me to support the whole 2014 thing? This sounds to me like its just an attempt to channel the energy of those fighting for the 2A into electing conservatives, thats not my fight. My fight was the preservation of my ability to own guns, I lost that fight, and I'm not seeing how 2014 relates to it, other than as punishment.

So, you're just going to give up and walk away?

Your response to this situation is, "Well, I lost, rather than elect people who will support my rights, I'll just leave the people in office who ****ed me."

I'm not understanding your point. Rather than to fight for the future, your just going to pack it in because of one setback? These same people who are supporting an AWB and licensing will one day no longer be content to allow grandfathering and then turn to confiscation.

These same people will come for handguns, then shotguns, then rifles. Until you have nothing. And rather than try to stop it, you want to give up?

Apathy is worse than death.

 

[Cmoney]

The point is to prove that we can reach out and touch some of these reps so they'll start listening. Right now they don't care because they think they are safe from getting voted out.

Start removing a few of them, make sure they know it was us and they'll start giving us an ear.

Yeah, everybody keeps saying this, but so what? The damage is already done! They will listen to us about what? Issues I don't agree with you on?

We are not all included in your "us", if that makes sense.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

+1
In those districts where is is possible to elect a pro 2A rep., we do that. In those districts where the blue is deep and we will most likely get another gun grabbing rep., it is just for spite and to make them think twice. This is a long haul and I'm deeply committed to at least the 2014 cycle. Revenge, Deceit and treachery are the actions of the day. arrrrr matey!

The best revenge is living well.

Reframing my thinking to getting true supporters of the COTUS to represent us at every level. THEY operate in deceit and treachery when they do not.

** Don't retreat! Reload! ** (pretty soon you'll be reloading twice as often)

 

[ShoreShooter]

That's a false dichotomy, there is more to politics than being a republican/democrat.

True.

But you will have a hard time finding a political candidate to support who is pro 2A, and also pro-gay, pro-abortion, and so forth.

I can't recall ever voting for anyone since I began voting about 35 or 40 years ago that I didn't have to hold my nose about on some position or another. Life can be a bitch that way.

I am guessing you live in Rudy Caine's district. You seem to be on the same page as he is on many issues, but he is on the other side of you on guns. At the next election you are going to have to choose.

 

[trbon8r]

You mean paid for by myself? I pay taxes too. We are going to be paying taxes either way, so tell me, if we're going to pay them, do want the current results, or do you want to at least get something out of the exchange?



Shoreshooter, not offended at all. I realised after I posted that my post kind of looks like my job is in jeopardy because of the bill, its not, thats just a coincedence, I think the gun companies are 100% in the right to move out of Maryland, though my heart certainly goes out to those who will be affected, I deployed to Iraq with a guard unit from Easton, I have friends who work for LWRC at the Matech plant here in Salisbury. I know people who will be affected by this directly, I wish that they did not have to loose their jobs, but I do think the companies are right for leaving, they should not contribute money to a state that abuses them.

If you are receiving state run healthcare and college money while paying into the system on $266 a week in wages, you are receiving more governmental services than for which you are paying. That by definition = FSA.

I'm no accountant, but I bet at the end of the year at your income level you have paid little to no federal or state income tax, and most of your withholding is refunded to you.

 

[tsmith1499]

I will give you props on one thing. At 25 you are INVOLVED in the political process. When I was 25 I didn't give a rats behind what was going on statewide or nationally. For that, you have my respect.

 

[Brooklyn]

On what issues am I confused about republicans?

I also resent the implication that just because I am against republicans (as they have come to express themselves over the past 30 or so years, seemingly) that I am for democrats. That's a false dichotomy, there is more to politics than being a republican/democrat.

I have not the time., nor the inclination to explain. No offense but i need to work on those who are more likely to come around a minimum cost of time and effort.

First we are not loosing. While it is true that we would have an easier time without our extreme right. There is no moderate wing of the democratic party.

False dichotomy all you want, in the world of real politics, election finance reform, and party control of primaries and media shills ... you must chose a side even if its not a perfect match to you views.

I have chosen, for now at least, and it sounds like you have as well. I respect your choice.. I do not agree, but that is beside the point.

I have moderate democrats to lobby, they are more likely to see my views and help me. Its a time and numbers game-- nothing personal.

 

[ShoreShooter]

I have moderate democrats to lobby, they are more likely to see my views and help me. Its a time and numbers game-- nothing personal.

There used to be a large element of what was called "southern Democrats" back when I was a youngster. Conservative Democrats. Strong on defense. But also more liberal on social issues.

Regan captured them into the Republican party at the same time the Boston far left wing captured control of the Dems.

It would be great if the Dems rebuilt a conservative wing of the party and we had some better choices again.

 

[Mooseman]

I don't want to appear negative but it appears we are going to lose this battle. I like the idea of voting these bums out of office. I believe in term limits. However, we alone will not get these people out of office. Just look at how the ballot initiatives in the last election turned out. Conservatives are a minority in Maryland. I am going to keep fighting to try to beat SB281. I don't think we will be successful but that is not going to stop me from trying. Quiters never win and winners never quit.

 

[Mooseman]

Cmoney, your views are your views and I will not try to change them. My comment to you is if you are working full time and only making $266 per week you may need to try to find a lawyer. You are making below minimum wage. A good lawyer may be able to get you back pay. Good luck.

 

[nedsurf]

.

I've said a thousand times, guns are not a left/right issue, they are an issue of liberty, and there are people on both sides who love liberty, and people on both sides who hate it.

Cmoney. I'm glad you wrote this here. I don't agree with many of the statements about topics other than guns posted on this forum. The current fight is about 2A rights which a runaway, virtually unopposed left agenda is pushing for hard. I have prioritized the 2A over other issues I care deeply about because it is the backbone to keeping our freedoms. I begrudgingly accept that the reality of the world is that "all power emanates from the barrel of a gun". With a more balanced state government that has given up the pursuit of stripping 2A from the population, I will most likely go back to considering these other issues and many on this forum will think I am an idiot for taking those positions.
I urge you to stay in this fight at least until we have a more balanced gov't. We need people contacting the politicians who align with them on many things but not on 2A infringement. Yes, you will have to rub elbows with others who do not share other views with you. Please think of it as an opportunity to understand other viewpoints better.
To those straying into other issues on this forum. I implore you to stick to the pro-gun issue. Do we really need to thin the ranks of those who support us? What if a gay person wanted to support his 2A rights and came on this forum and saw all the homophobic comments? It has a chilling effect that we will most likely never be able to gauge. If you must, I support your 1A rights.

 

[ShoreShooter]

This is a war, not a battle.

The next time some non-2A issue comes up, join in. Align. Support them, and ask for their support back.

Until now I have never owned a weapon that will fall on the bad list. I have owned and shot standard hunting shotguns and deer rifles since I received my first shotgun for Christmas when I was 13.

But I now own (or will once my number comes up ... day 36 for me) two semi-auto pistols, and am willing to fight the fight for 2A. Because I have been fighting the fight on other conservative issues for years.

Will you and others do the same? Or continue to be badly out numbered on one narrow issue like guns?

 

[helmetmike]

Wow. I can see where there are diverse opinions and plenty of room for discussion. So, I have a question for Cmoney. What do you recommend as a course of action if you do not support the 2014 initiative?

 

[DanGuy48]

...Whether the next batch are pro-2A isn't as important as whether they will listen to the people or not.

Respectfully disagree with this. We need to know they are steadfastly in favor of individual liberty. Too many of them will listen and nod with false sympathy and then do whatever the hell they want. Only a select few, who have proven themselves, deserve our trust.