Looking for an arrow “elmer” aka expert

[outrider58]

Another though also; check the spine on the arrows your daughter is shooting and make sure they aren't under spine. If she's right on the line between spine stiffness, it's always preferable to be a little over spined than under spined. Another thing to look at between seasons.

 

[N3YMY]

Never heard of a problem with them "blowing up".

Poor word selection on my part; the rest would not reset due to internal failure of the mechanicals in the case of the Harrisonburg archer. He could not finish the remaining ends.

I'll say this, never change a set-up in the middle of a season. Make moves like that during the off season for obvious reasons.

Daughter and I have such an agreement. It does not cover coaches.

You might try replacing the errant arrows with new ones of the same make and hope for improvement.

With the track record we have had with the VAP V1 (before now), I think flying them at the new spine value (600) will likely have good outcomes.

We will know by tomorrow.

Good luck!

We may very well need it!

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

PM sent.

Tnx!

Let me know if you reach him and what he says.

He was a good help to me one day when he offered to be my wingman on a Landscape trailer hunt at a sketchy seller's place.

 

[N3YMY]

Let me know if you reach him and what he says.

Will do.

There’s been a lot of good information here; I’ve learned some new things and even had information I thought I knew corrected.

The fact that the +10 FPS due to the draw length change and it’s impact upon the spine value, is likely our root cause.

We will know for sure by tomorrow.

I’m off to LAS as soon as this meeting finishes up…

 

[Bountied]

I thought that if you change your draw length you would need to change your arrow length? Is she using a finger as the rest for the arrow or something else?

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Will do.

There’s been a lot of good information here; I’ve learned some new things and even had information I thought I knew corrected.

The fact that the +10 FPS due to the draw length change and it’s impact upon the spine value, is likely our root cause.

We will know for sure by tomorrow.

I’m off to LAS as soon as this meeting finishes up…

I have scratched the surface on learning from you guys too.

Thanks.

 

[outrider58]

I thought that if you change your draw length you would need to change your arrow length? Is she using a finger as the rest for the arrow or something else?

It depends on the length of the existing arrow and amount of change in length and or draw weight. Ultimately, it will affect spine as well, but again, it depends on how much the change.

She's using a "launcher" type rest.

 

[Bountied]

It depends on the length of the existing arrow and amount of change in length and or draw weight. Ultimately, it will affect spine as well, but again, it depends on how much the change.

She's using a "launcher" type rest.

My arrows are about 1" longer than where my rest is. My draw is already maxed out but if I could extend it my arrows would be too short. I'm guessing this isn't the issue. Seems bizarre since the arrows are pretty much all exactly the same. Have they checked for warping? My practice arrows get a lot more abuse than my hunting arrows.

 

[N3YMY]

She has about 3” beyond her finger tips when testing for length; plenty of arrow is still beyond the rest

 

[outrider58]

A good rule of thumb for proper arrow length is the arrow should be about an 1.5" beyond the riser at the grip at full draw. That does not count broadhead or target/field point.

Actual draw length depends on the bow and set-up. Do you use a mechanical release, a mechanical release with a loop, or a finger tab? Those will determine proper bow draw lengths. A tad short is better that a tad too long. Too long will not allow a perfect anchor. With a bow set a tad too short, that difference can be overcome by adding a loop to your string, or by adjusting the yoke length on a caliper or trigger release. Back tension releases aren't as adjustable.

 

[N3YMY]

It depends on the length of the existing arrow and amount of change in length and or draw weight. Ultimately, it will affect spine as well, but again, it depends on how much the change.

Too many pronouns.

“It” above is not draw length, correct?

If “it” is draw length, please explain how that affects spine.

(just want to make sure all I understand is complete)

I am back in Fredneck and will be getting busy building these things after dinner…

 

[Inigoes]

Are you recording the weights as you are numbering each arrow?

 

[outrider58]

I thought that if you change your draw length you would need to change your arrow length? Is she using a finger as the rest for the arrow or something else?

It depends on the length of the existing arrow and amount of change in length and or draw weight. Ultimately, it will affect spine as well, but again, it depends on how much the change.

She's using a "launcher" type rest.

Too many pronouns.

“It” above is not draw length, correct?

If “it” is draw length, please explain how that affects spine.

(just want to make sure all I understand is complete)

I am back in Fredneck and will be getting busy building these things after dinner…

Sorry, I understand. It may be easier to read and understand in context.

Every arrow manufacturer has their own spine chart, so you should always refer to them.
They usually go by arrow length + draw weight = arrow spine formula.

 

[N3YMY]

Are you recording the weights as you are numbering each arrow?

Yes.

 

[outrider58]

Are you recording the weights as you are numbering each arrow?

I still think it is a spine problem and not a weight problem, though they do go hand in hand. I don't compete, so my hunting practice arrows sometimes become replacement hunting arrows. They don't always end up the same lengths from year to year.

Below is a group shot at 40 or 50 yards(can't remember which). The low 'dropper' arrow is actually the lightest arrow of the group. It always drops in lower. It is the shortest, lightest arrow in my practice quiver. It's got to be spine?

 

[N3YMY]

(Nice group!)

Agree; I also believe it is a spine issue.

The first 6 arrows are in the book for tomorrow: 3 fletched and 3 unadorned.

I also dropped down to the 100gr point, which I have no plans to shave at this time.

As I’m building a new from scratch arrow configuration, I am not beholden to anything (because it does not yet exist).

Tomorrow we will test these at 30 and 50m. If that shakes out we will begin the process of finding the length where the fletched and unfletched shaft groups converge.

Outrider, you build your own arrows or buy…? Spine align or nock tune?

 

[outrider58]

(Nice group!)

Agree; I also believe it is a spine issue.

The first 6 arrows are in the book for tomorrow: 3 fletched and 3 unadorned.

I also dropped down to the 100gr point, which I have no plans to shave at this time.

As I’m building a new from scratch arrow configuration, I am not beholden to anything (because it does not yet exist).

Tomorrow we will test these at 30 and 50m. If that shakes out we will begin the process of finding the length where the fletched and unfletched shaft groups converge.

Outrider, you build your own arrows or buy…? Spine align or nock tune?

It's been a few years since I bought a dozen arrows. I used to shoot long distance so I could easily make 40+ yard shots on deer. I would go through a good many arrows. Nowadays all I do is step into my back yard and shoot at existing arrow holes in my target until my release becomes natural to me; about a week and a half. Then I hunt. I only hunt for mature deer, so there are years(like last year) I won't even take a shot. That and how I practice now save on arrows. I have 5 in my quiver on my bow and 2 spares in my bow case, so it will be some time before I buy arrows again.

I buy Beaman ICS arrows. They have always served me well and are easy to find if I need more in short order. I get them cut and I fletch them myself using the DIY heat shrink(in hot water) vanes where I impart a little helical to them. I don't bother finding the spine. I prefer to nock rotate any arrow that strays. I do mark my arrows and ones that have taken deer get "kill" written on them.

 

[Inigoes]

I still think it is a spine problem and not a weight problem, though they do go hand in hand. I don't compete, so my hunting practice arrows sometimes become replacement hunting arrows. They don't always end up the same lengths from year to year.

Below is a group shot at 40 or 50 yards(can't remember which). The low 'dropper' arrow is actually the lightest arrow of the group. It always drops in lower. It is the shortest, lightest arrow in my practice quiver. It's got to be spine?

View attachment 422899

It most likely is, but taking notes along the way will help solve the issue by using evidence, rather than guessing.

Also taking measurements of each arrow will let the owner know the minor variations on how much glue was used, that may affect the flight so the best can be identified.

Sort of like reloading, knowing the type of powder, primer, and bullet weight gives the shooter the best result.

I am interested in hearing how the new arrows perform.

 

[outrider58]

OP, also make sure the ends of your arrow shafts have been trued, much like the barrel extension of an AR15 upper receiver.

 

[N3YMY]

OP, also make sure the ends of your arrow shafts have been trued, much like the barrel extension of an AR15 upper receiver.

I possess and use the G5 squaring tool