Beretta updates the M9

[Marauder]

Don't like the looks!

 

[Shoobedoo]

Looks don't put holes in targets, but that thing is just butt ugly.

It has a toyish look to it IMO, but probably a decent shooting gun despite it's funky appearance.

 

[annihilation-time]

With the exception of the grip, I like the look of it.

 

[airsporter]

That slide mounted safety is pure idiocy. That should have been eliminated 80 years ago by Walther, before the P38. There is no excuse for such bad engineering.

That right there is a sufficient explanation for why the damn Nazis lost the war.

I'm surprised the engineer wasn't convicted and hanged at Nuremberg.

The 92 is simply the evolution of the P38. Italian engineers worked with the Germans in WWII. I was amazed when I did a side-by-side takedown of the two.

 

[trbon8r]

The slide mounted safety may not be the best idea, but it works and isn't the abomination to gun design some make it out to be. Decock the pistol, set the safety on fire, holster up and forget the safety is there. This works whether we are talking about a Beretta or the S&W 59XX series. Again, not the way I would design a pistol, but it works and isn't that big of a deal if you otherwise like the Beretta or the Smith.

 

[Lou45]

The slide mounted safety may not be the best idea, but it works and isn't the abomination to gun design some make it out to be. Decock the pistol, set the safety on fire, holster up and forget the safety is there. This works whether we are talking about a Beretta or the S&W 59XX series. Again, not the way I would design a pistol, but it works and isn't that big of a deal if you otherwise like the Beretta or the Smith.

I do like the Beretta 92SF design except for the slide mounted safety for the reasons Chad and spoke of earlier in this thread. Doing a fast mag change and slingshotting (the way I was trained and for good reasons) the first round into the chamber can easily result (not intentionally) in placing the safety/decocker in the safe/decock position when one is expecting it ready for action just by pullin' the bang switch. The only way I want a firearm to go in safety and/or decock mode is if I intentionally want it to and do so accordingly.

 

[trbon8r]

I'm not a "slingshotter" but if I was I could see why it might be a problem. I've found for most shooters unless they have little clown hands, it is usually faster for them to use the slide catch lever to send the slide forward. But different strokes for different folks. The key is knowing how your gun works and practicing what works and avoiding what doesn't.

It seems a large percentage of the shooters we are seeing these days have been trained to slingshot the gun. I wouldn't even think of trying to force them to change. Both methods work. What I do suggest though is that during some reloading drills they try both methods so they understand there is an alternative. Sometimes I get a convert other times not. As long as a shooter is effective I don't much care how they do it.

 

[Mike]

15 round magazines in MD

Am I correct to assume I'd need a CA compliant version here in the Soviet Maryland state? 10 round mags only? I called the Westminster barracks for clarification only to be hurried off the phone.

10rd cap mags are the maximum size that can be sold, received, manufactured, or purchased in MD.

I don't know where you go, but United Gun Shop was very helpful when I bought my gun there (not this model). They dropped the 15 rnd mags into an envelope to my VA friend. No extra charge. We met up at the VA range and I came home with the mags.

 

[Name Taken]

I'm not a "slingshotter" but if I was I could see why it might be a problem. I've found for most shooters unless they have little clown hands, it is usually faster for them to use the slide catch lever to send the slide forward. But different strokes for different folks. The key is knowing how your gun works and practicing what works and avoiding what doesn't.

It seems a large percentage of the shooters we are seeing these days have been trained to slingshot the gun. I wouldn't even think of trying to force them to change. Both methods work. What I do suggest though is that during some reloading drills they try both methods so they understand there is an alternative. Sometimes I get a convert other times not. As long as a shooter is effective I don't much care how they do it.

Try being left handed. Until recently "sling shooting" was the only real option. Several guns offer ambi releases now but if you used a Sig for 10 years you aren't changing that habit now under stress without A LOT of training.

 

[trbon8r]

Try being left handed. Until recently "sling shooting" was the only real option. Several guns offer ambi releases now but if you used a Sig for 10 years you aren't changing that habit now under stress without A LOT of training.

Yep, as a lefty you are screwed. I know the feeling being a left handed long gun shooter. There are far less options and in many cases the only option is to adapt to a right handed gun.

 

[Lou45]

I'm not a "slingshotter" but if I was I could see why it might be a problem. I've found for most shooters unless they have little clown hands, it is usually faster for them to use the slide catch lever to send the slide forward. But different strokes for different folks. The key is knowing how your gun works and practicing what works and avoiding what doesn't.

It seems a large percentage of the shooters we are seeing these days have been trained to slingshot the gun. I wouldn't even think of trying to force them to change. Both methods work. What I do suggest though is that during some reloading drills they try both methods so they understand there is an alternative. Sometimes I get a convert other times not. As long as a shooter is effective I don't much care how they do it.

The slingshot method gives added guide rod spring pressure to help ensure the first cartridge outta'da' full magazine feeds, chambers, and the slide going into full lockup/battery. The full magazine places the greatest resistance on the uppermost cartridge by the maximum compression of the mag spring thus somewhat reducing the effectiveness of the guide rod spring doing it's job effectively, especially if the gun is dirty/dry and/or the guide rod spring is not up to 100%.

 

[smokey]

I wonder why they still stick with the open slide design. Seems one of the biggest complaints about the M9 is sand and dirt getting packed in it.

Dirt goes in, but dirt also gets out easier. I shoot the m9 great, but the ergonomics have always sucked to me.

 

[trbon8r]

The slingshot method gives added guide rod spring pressure to help ensure the first cartridge outta'da' full magazine feeds, chambers, and the slide going into full lockup/battery. The full magazine places the greatest resistance on the uppermost cartridge by the maximum compression of the mag spring thus somewhat reducing the effectiveness of the guide rod spring doing it's job effectively, especially if the gun is dirty/dry and/or the guide rod spring is not up to 100%.

Out of many thousands of rounds I've never ever had a pistol not go into battery because of using the slide catch lever to send the slide home. This includes dirty pistols during a training class with a 1000 or more rounds through them. I am also skeptical that pulling back on the slide a fraction of an inch really gives that much more spring pressure.

If I have to do a dry reload in a gunfight I'm already having a shit awful bad day. For my money I'm using the slide catch lever. It is faster, period. To me that matters most. The key is whether the user has the hand size/strength to make this technique work for them.

 

[Name Taken]

Out of many thousands of rounds I've never ever had a pistol not go into battery because of using the slide catch lever to send the slide home. This includes dirty pistols during a training class with a 1000 or more rounds through them. I am also skeptical that pulling back on the slide a fraction of an inch really gives that much more spring pressure.

If I have to do a dry reload in a gunfight I'm already having a shit awful bad day. For my money I'm using the slide catch lever. It is faster, period. To me that matters most. The key is whether the user has the hand size/strength to make this technique work for them.

If it works and you win there are no bad tactics or techniques.

 

[Blaster229]

Out of many thousands of rounds I've never ever had a pistol not go into battery because of using the slide catch lever to send the slide home. This includes dirty pistols during a training class with a 1000 or more rounds through them. I am also skeptical that pulling back on the slide a fraction of an inch really gives that much more spring pressure.

We had one of our firearms guys go 15,000 without cleaning his 229. Just lubed it slightly over the weeks. He is a slide catch guy and never had one issue with battery, ever.
I'm a slide catch guy usually. It's instinctive because your thumb is right there and it's fastest. That second you take to slingshot the slide can be used using the slide catch pressing out on target and rolling into your grip.
I also ride the lock, so, much of the time I don't get a lock back on empty. I'm used to slingshotting as well.
A slide not going into battery all the way just requires a helpful tap forward.

 

[Minuteman]

They should have went to a frame mounted safety/decocker. I hate the slide controls as they activate when slingshotting the slide.

Yes, this. Biggest mistake is having a safety at all, second biggest is putting it on the slide. Very awkward to use too, requires lots of training. That safety is the worst for accidentially getting knocked to on or off when you don't want it too. You have to always check it. Some people have died because of it, and a few cops have been saved because perp who wrestled them from cops couldn't figure out the safety in a panic.

Also adjustable sights are a bad idea too.

Needs thinner grips.

Ugly finish.

Does it even still use old 92FS mags?

Someone really liked the FN FNP Tac and thought they could slip this one under the radar if they dressed it up enough.

Yep, that's clearly the inspiration.

I do like the rail, and simple slide lock and nifty takedown lever. I also like the exposed barrel and big trigger guard. If they had only lightened it up, made the grips thinner, dropped the safety and added a rail - would have been a big winner.

Lots of people really like the original 92FS, let's see if this one catches on as well.

 

[trbon8r]

We had one of our firearms guys go 15,000 without cleaning his 229. Just lubed it slightly over the weeks. He is a slide catch guy and never had one issue with battery, ever.
I'm a slide catch guy usually. It's instinctive because your thumb is right there and it's fastest. That second you take to slingshot the slide can be used using the slide catch pressing out on target and rolling into your grip.
I also ride the lock, so, much of the time I don't get a lock back on empty. I'm used to slingshotting as well.
A slide not going into battery all the way just requires a helpful tap forward.

Riding the slide catch lever is a common problem with the 229. The way I explain it to shooters is to try and pick out an index point with the pad of the shooting side thumb that keeps the thumb away from the slide catch lever. For me the index point is the first knuckle on my non shooting side thumb. If the pad of the shooting side thumb has an index point that becomes part of the shooter's grip and draw, the problem usually goes away. Hope that made sense.

 

[ezracer]

Now THIS....would be an improvement! IMHO. 45 ACP 'natch.

 

[Blaster229]

Riding the slide catch lever is a common problem with the 229. The way I explain it to shooters is to try and pick out an index point with the pad of the shooting side thumb that keeps the thumb away from the slide catch lever. For me the index point is the first knuckle on my non shooting side thumb. If the pad of the shooting side thumb has an index point that becomes part of the shooter's grip and draw, the problem usually goes away. Hope that made sense.

I totally understood the explanation. I have tried everything. My thumb just travels all over the place on that side. After all these years I have just gotten used to either racking the slide back before the mag exchange or after the mag exchange. Makes great practice for malfunction drills

 

[trbon8r]

I totally understood the explanation. I have tried everything. My thumb just travels all over the place on that side. After all these years I have just gotten used to either racking the slide back before the mag exchange or after the mag exchange. Makes great practice for malfunction drills

Well at least you are getting some malfunction practice.

Man that is a tough one especially with shooting the 229 after a lot of years and getting used to doing things the same way. What I have done with shooters in the past is take some white athletic tape, tear off a piece and roll it up into a ball. Take that ball of tape and place it somewhere around that first joint on the non-shooting side thumb. Then use some more tape to wrap the hand and thumb going around and over the ball of tape. It can sometimes create a barrier that prevents the shooting side thumb from sliding over and contacting the slide catch lever. I have seen that sometimes create enough muscle memory that when the tape is removed the problem is either eliminated or at least reduced. Good luck, and I hope this crazy explanation made sense as well.