“Long Gun Qual License Dead”

[rbird7282]

I'll be magnanimous and say the first dose of NARCAN can be gratis. Subsequent doses are cash-only, especially if the patient is one of those ingrates who assaults the EMTs for interrupting his/her high.

I say no doses of Narcan. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.


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[rbird7282]

I thought I already addressed that with the ATF guide I posted last night about the ability for voluntary NICS checks to be conducted by an FFL. I will post it again for you.



FFL Procedures for Facilitating Private Sales with a NICS check included:



https://www.atf.gov/file/110076/download



Yes, the process would look almost exactly as if the FFL was selling the gun. Hence, the transfer fee that would be charged by the FFL for the service.



Yes, this makes some of this a little bit more cumbersome. There would be a transfer fee charged by the FFL, which is an added cost. No more buying firearms at a yard sale off a folding table or buying them in a duck blind from a hunting buddy. All firearms sales in Maryland would have to go through an FFL so a NICS check could be performed. For me, a NICS check is a lot less cumbersome than a LGQL and/or a Form 77R. Then again, I don't usually buy used firearms via private sales. Only been tempted once on a really awesome price on a Benelli SBE, but I passed the deal on to my buddy who did not have a Benelli yet. Entire reason he wanted one was because I let him use mine after I limited out and he showed up at the blind. Anyway, I digress.



The NICS check on a private sale is legal, albeit voluntary.

You need to change the wording. A NICS check on a private sale appears to ONLY be legal if the transfer goes through the FFL (taking possession and logging it in to their book)
They can’t run a NICS check as a courtesy for two private parties who come in off the street to do a private sale.
This is the issue now with this bill.


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[rbird7282]

Everything is a "legitimate" transfer, even in a private sale. It is just that there is no legal requirement for a NICS check at the federal level for a Maryland resident to Maryland resident sale of a long gun.



Now, what happens with regulated firearms when a Maryland resident wants to sell a Maryland resident a handgun and they decide to go through an FFL, because by Maryland law they MUST go through an FFL or the MSP barracks. Does the FFL do a NICS check on the buyer when the FFL handles the transaction?

In the scenario above, the FFL doesn’t do any check, the MSP does.


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[fabsroman]

You need to change the wording. A NICS check on a private sale appears to ONLY be legal if the transfer goes through the FFL (taking possession and logging it in to their book)
They can’t run a NICS check as a courtesy for two private parties who come in off the street to do a private sale.
This is the issue now with this bill.


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What wording do I need to change? I wrote:

"Yes, the process would look almost exactly as if the FFL was selling the gun."

Should I have said, "Yes, the process would look almost exactly as if the FFL was transferring a Gunbroker deal."

What did I miss?

 

[swinokur]

The only difference is the seller would have to have the firearm transferred into the Bound Book as an acquisition. The NICS check cannot be run on a firearm not in the BB.

That would require the FFL charging a fee to the buyer if they agree to do it

A possible tactic to make this difficult would be if all MD FFL’s refuse to do them, forcing people to use MSP for the check

 

[PJDiesel]

The only difference is the seller would have to have the firearm transferred into the Bound Book as an acquisition. The NICS check cannot be run on a firearm not in the BB.

That would require the FFL charging a fee to the buyer if they agree to do it

A possible tactic to make this difficult would be if all MD FFL’s refuse to do them, forcing people to use MSP for the check

I lol'd a little. They (dealers) couldn't even come together to make ON time transfers way back when.

I drove 75 miles one way to buy a gun that I could have bought ~10 minutes down the road from my house,... just to support an FFL who wasn't playing the BS games of waiting MONTHS for the paperwork to come back.

 

[swinokur]

I only proposed it to put the load on MSP.

A refusal would not be as hard to do as trying to interpret MD law and running afoul of MSP and their intimidation tactics

I have no idea if it would actually be effective

 

[PJDiesel]

I only proposed it to put the load on MSP.

I have no idea ofbitceouodxsctuallt

And I agree.

I'd recommend NOT going to the North East barracks, unless you like being treated like shit for no reason.

 

[Dave.B]

And I agree.

I'd recommend NOT going to the North East barracks, unless you like being treated like shit for no reason.

Hell I've been treated like shit in every MSP barracks I've been in. Always an attitude like you're bothering them.

 

[mac1_131]

Remember that MSP also licenses FFL’s. I’m not sure that MSP would view a refusal to do a NICS check in a favorable light when the MD license came up for renewal.

Remember who we’re dealing with.

Yes and no. There are FFLs that are not MD Regulated Firearms Dealers. They only have to have the MD license to sell regulated guns.

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[John from MD]

The FFL's in this state are not your friends. They are business people who practice the first rule of business, make a profit. Too many have forgotten how they held us hostage in 2013 even though the law said we could have our pistols after 8 days. This from business who knew their customers, some for many years. They caved and we paid for it. It will be the same this time.

 

[fabsroman]

I lol'd a little. They (dealers) couldn't even come together to make ON time transfers way back when.

I drove 75 miles one way to buy a gun that I could have bought ~10 minutes down the road from my house,... just to support an FFL who wasn't playing the BS games of waiting MONTHS for the paperwork to come back.

That issue was this time 6 years ago. My FFL started making the regulated transfers 7 days after the paperwork was submitted. Lou45 was doing the same thing. At first, they did not understand the law. Then, it became clearer and clearer, and I believe there was a lawsuit on the issue too. Not only that, but MSP was asking the dealers to do MSP a favor and sit on transfers until the Not Disapproved came back.

I think things are a lot clearer for dealers now concerning the 7 day waiting period.

 

[swinokur]

I think his point is getting dealers to act in a uniform manner to accomplish a goal is an impossibility .

I don’t disagree

 

[fabsroman]

The FFL's in this state are not your friends. They are business people who practice the first rule of business, make a profit. Too many have forgotten how they held us hostage in 2013 even though the law said we could have our pistols after 8 days. This from business who knew their customers, some for many years. They caved and we paid for it. It will be the same this time.

The law actually says you could have your regulated firearm, which back then was a handgun or assault weapon, after 7 days. The law is the same today.

Think that was a learning experience for most dealers as the Not Disapproved usually came back well before the 7 day time frame expired.

However, once the lawsuit against MSP was decided, I think that should have been the end of that. Anybody holding out beyond 7 days after the ;lawsuit was decided was just full of crap. Believe Atlantic Guns was one of them.

My FFL is a friend of mine, but I sure doubt he would want to lose his house and other possessions over the entire 7 day wait period.

 

[fabsroman]

I think his point is getting dealers to act in a uniform manner to accomplish a goal is an impossibility .

I don’t disagree

Wasn't there some sort of dealer association back in 2013 that Lou was heading?

Heck, trying to get all gun owners to act in a concerted manner to accomplish something is an impossibility. We all have differing ideas. Heck, bet there is a lot of disagreement just on white shirts.

 

[PJDiesel]

I think his point is getting dealers to act in a uniform manner to accomplish a goal is an impossibility .

I don’t disagree

Correct. It's difficult to get any group of anyone to TRULY rally around an idea.

 

[dist1646]

The Maryland Licensed Dealers Association used to be headed by Sanford Abrams at one time. They are not our friend.

There are far too many who are willing to surrender their freedom in this state. Looks like a number of them are on this forum. I am not willing to give up any more, period! It is utterly absurd that the very idea of being charged multiple fees to be able to sell your lawfully owned property would be acceptable to any real American!

 

[fabsroman]

The Maryland Licensed Dealers Association used to be headed by Sanford Abrams at one time. They are not our friend.

There are far too many who are willing to surrender their freedom in this state. Looks like a number of them are on this forum. I am not willing to give up any more, period! It is utterly absurd that the very idea of being charged multiple fees to be able to sell your lawfully owned property would be acceptable to any real American!

Yeah, or have to pay income tax on any gain realized from the sale of your lawfully owned property.

Make a profit selling your vehicle and you have to pay capital gains tax on it and the buyer has to pay sales tax on the entire purchase price. SOB Buyer probably has to pay some sort of titling fee too for the vehicle.

Do not even get me started with the buying and selling of houses. The government gets you coming, going, and in the middle of all of it too.

Inconceivable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least they do not charge sales tax on groceries. They just get you on the back end with sewer fees, septic inspection, etc.

 

[Trigger Time]

The FFL's in this state are not your friends. They are business people who practice the first rule of business, make a profit. Too many have forgotten how they held us hostage in 2013 even though the law said we could have our pistols after 8 days. This from business who knew their customers, some for many years. They caved and we paid for it. It will be the same this time.

Believe me I haven't forgotten how the the dealers were crying because they couldn't get guns in fast enough to sell at inflated prices.

 

[danb]

The Maryland Licensed Dealers Association used to be headed by Sanford Abrams at one time. They are not our friend.

There are far too many who are willing to surrender their freedom in this state. Looks like a number of them are on this forum. I am not willing to give up any more, period! It is utterly absurd that the very idea of being charged multiple fees to be able to sell your lawfully owned property would be acceptable to any real American!

Any cartel of business owners are going to act like a cartel. Regulations that steer you to the cartel are good for business.