Maryland firearms instructors being screwed?

BRONZ said:

Damn Im glad I have my MSP Certified Handgun Insfructor cert. but damn if I want to use it now.

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BRONZ said:

Damn Im glad I have my MSP Certified Handgun Insfructor cert. but damn if I want to use it now.

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trailman said:

Here is an ironic question. IF you have your cert does that qualify you for your permit or do you have to take the class? I tried doing a regulated purchase once and only has my HS instructor card on me. They wouldn't take it, said it didn't prove I took the class.

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trailman said:

Shut the whole damn thing down and wait. Make the state eat their law. I hate to sound like a prick but the blood at the liberty tree has a lot of patriot blood in it. What everyone is doing here is becoming an enabler for the state. Quite frankly we WANT the general public lining up screaming for their permits and looking for training classes. The gun run isn't going to end in MD just because October 1st rolls around, just in the past day the President put out news of more restrictions

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ol-measures-targets-military-surplus-imports/

Last time I was at BP they were 4 deep buying handguns and these were not the smoke and fire MDshooter crowd. They were regular folk trying to get ahead of what the gov't was doing mostly on a Federal level. These are the people that WE need to get pissed and start making phone calls to their legislators and or be represented by the lawsuit.



Lets get some perspective here, currently in Maryland they do not have a constitutional right to firearm ownership. The governor and legislature has seen to that. WE have to make sure our rush to "fix" something doesn't undermine long term goals.

Its funny how forums work, 1/2 the threads here are about the community helping everyone meet the new requirements and the other 1/2 is talking about how the lawsuit will be conducted and apparently no one is reading each others threads. Forums are echo chambers where all you hear is your own breathing. Helping Mrs Jones get her HGL will just prove FOR the state that these new laws are no big deal.

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ShallNotInfringe said:

How do you get a maryland handgun certified instructor designation without being certified to teach the handgun qualification license course?

These certifications don't make sense.

Didn't they just have a class in May or June? What was that for?

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lx1x said:

MSP Qualified Handgun Instructors.

Was designed to teach/qualify security guards, cc holders and pi (to name a few) to get their license, new and renewals.

With the new HQL.. there is another instructors in the pipeline. Its kind of confusing.

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ShallNotInfringe said:

So with the pending HQL, they didn't see fit to talk about it during that session? Nothing like dragging their feet...

As i mentioned before, I hope instructors in MD band together and come up with a standard package so they can stand together later.

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Inigoes said:

Go through the MD HUnter education online

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ShallNotInfringe said:

Then I would have to shoot a shotgun. Eek!

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3/2ACR Vet said:

Here is an issue that I wonder if anyone has thought of.

In order to get a HQL you need to take this training course, unless you are one of a select few categories. According to the standards I saw today, the training class has to include the firing of at least 1 round of ammunition from a pistol.

Until you recieve your HQL, you cannot buy, transfer, possess, or recieve a pistol.

So how can people who actually NEED the class complete the class without violating the law?

You need an HQL to buy a pistol, but you need to fire a pistol to get the HQL, but without a HQL you can't touch a pistol.

Catch-22?

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ShallNotInfringe said:

So with the pending HQL, they didn't see fit to talk about it during that session? Nothing like dragging their feet...

As i mentioned before, I hope instructors in MD band together and come up with a standard package so they can stand together later.

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Mr Bear said:

It says "purchase, rent or receive" not possess.

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Inigoes said:

LT Cook of the MSP Licensing division defined "Receive" as "Possession" yesterday in Hyattsville.

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ShallNotInfringe said:

Stop that!

It changes the entire complexion of the law if that holds true!

You know why they are doing that, right? The law is messed up on the purchase order section and somebody figured it out.

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Inigoes said:

I have email from the licensing division where the MSP flat out say they are going by the intent of the law, instead of by the letter of the law.

They did not mince words either.

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ShallNotInfringe said:

Focusing on "receive" language in the sections we are discussing... Here's a litany.

Black's Law Dictionary has the following definition for RECEIVE (and it is not redefined in the bill or in the Annotated Code of MD that I can locate):
To take into possession and control; accept custody of; collect.

Here's the bill language on the banned long guns (Section 4-302) - handguns are handled in a different section..
4–303.
(a)Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(1) transport an assault WEAPON into the State; or
(2) possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receive an assault WEAPON.

(b)
(1) A person who lawfully possessed an assault pistol before June 1, 1994, and who registered the assault pistol with the Secretary of State Police before August 1, 1994, may:
(I) continue to possess AND TRANSPORT the assault pistol; or
(II) while carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the assault pistol, transport the assault pistol directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station if the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the person is transporting the assault pistol in accordance with a court order and the assault pistol is unloaded.

(2) A LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER MAY CONTINUE TO POSSESS, SELL, OFFER FOR SALE, OR TRANSFER AN ASSAULT LONG GUN OR A COPYCAT WEAPON THAT THE LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER LAWFULLY POSSESSED ON OR BEFORE OCTOBER 1, 2013..

(3) A PERSON WHO LAWFULLY POSSESSED, HAS A PURCHASE ORDER FOR, OR COMPLETED AN APPLICATION TO PURCHASE AN ASSAULT LONG GUN OR A COPYCAT WEAPON BEFORE OCTOBER 1, 2013 MAY:

(I) CONTINUE TO POSSESS AND TRANSPORT THE ASSAULT LONG GUN OR COPYCAT WEAPON; OR

(II) WHILE CARRYING A COURT ORDER REQUIRING THE SURRENDER OF THE ASSAULT LONG GUN OR COPYCAT WEAPON, TRANSPORT THE ASSAULT LONG GUN OR COPYCAT WEAPON DIRECTLY TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT UNIT, BARRACKS, OR STATION IF THE PERSON HAS NOTIFIED THE LAW ENFORCEMENT UNIT, BARRACKS, OR STATION THAT THE PERSON IS TRANSPORTING THE ASSAULT LONG GUN OR COPYCAT WEAPON IN ACCORDANCE WITH A COURT ORDER AND THE ASSAULT LONG GUN OR COPYCAT WEAPON IS UNLOADED.

I don't see "may"..."receive" in (b)3(I)... I do see "receive" specifically called out in 1(a) as a "MAY NOT". There no exception for "receive" in b(3)(I). Only 1 of the list in 1(a) is excepted - possess. Then a thrown in "transport", which IIRC was added for "clarification".

Who knows? Not trying to cause a stir, just a straight reading of the black letters on the white paper.

I recall the floor debate about this and the discussion was about the dealers being able to sell them out of state to rid themselves of inventory (Dumais)

Here's a "fun" paragraph.... That has the word "receive" in it:

4–304.
A law enforcement unit may seize as contraband and dispose of according to regulation an assault WEAPON transported, sold, transferred, purchased, received, or possessed in violation of this subtitle.

Here's the bill language on Handguns (Section 5-117.1):

(B) A DEALER OR ANY OTHER PERSON MAY NOT SELL, RENT, OR TRANSFER A HANDGUN TO A PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE UNLESS THE PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE PRESENTS TO THE DEALER OR OTHER PERSON A VALID HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE ISSUED TO THE PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE BY THE SECRETARY UNDER THIS SECTION.

(C) A PERSON MAY PURCHASE, RENT, OR RECEIVE A HANDGUN ONLY IF THE PERSON:
(1) (I) POSSESSES A VALID HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE ISSUED TO THE PERSON BY THE SECRETARY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS SECTION;

They do use the word "receive" here. This reads like you need a HQL after 10/1 to receive a handgun. The bill is silent on possession. So you don't need a HQL to possess a handgun after 10/1.

And in the section in magazines (4-305) they use "receive" and "transfer". But are silent on possession. So you can possess a magazine with more than 10 round capacity after 10/1, but cant do any of the other actions listed.

(a)This section does not apply to:
(1) a .22 caliber rifle with a tubular magazine; OR
(2) A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR A PERSON WHO RETIRED IN GOOD STANDING FROM SERVICE WITH A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THE UNITED STATES, THE STATE, OR ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY IN THE STATE.
(b) A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.

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mcbruzdzinski said:

You still need to register with MSP on-line or via e-mail (attaching copies of credentials) in order to get on the MSP list of eligible HQL instructors.


The most important part is not to offer the course under your NRA credentials.

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Watkins87 said:

I just received my NRA Instructors License in July, I know I will be seeking Insurance before any training. But If we meet the requirements to train under NRA, why are not use those Credentials? (I am asking in case I missed something). Also, you're stating that we have to get on a list under MSP to be eligible?

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Inigoes said:

LT Cook of the MSP Licensing division defined "Receive" as "Possession" yesterday in Hyattsville.

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Mr Bear said:

Given all the other misinformation coming from the MSP, I'm not certain I want to believe the Lt/take his word for it.

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