Maryland firearms instructors being screwed?

[DanGuy48]

I just got this from the NRA. This state is doing everything it can to make as big a mess of this as possible.
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"The Maryland Firearms Safety Act of 2013 is going to take effect October 1 of this year, and the Maryland State Police have been tasked with organizing and administering certain aspects of the law. Toward that end, MSP has given us the below notice of how the mandatory training programs are to be implemented. Instructors intending to participate in the Qualified Handgun Instructor program should take particular note of two aspects of the program as it is currently conceived.

First, for the four hour class needed to purchase a firearm, there is a requirement that instruction must be given on Maryland state law pertaining to firearms and self-defense. Rendering legal advice or interpretation is a task for attorneys, and instructors who are not licensed to practice law may wish to seek legal advice regarding the limits of what they can do in this regard.

Second is the fact that the course is to be developed by the instructor. The state is not providing an approved syllabus, nor (apparently) will an existing NRA course wholly satisfy the course requirements as laid out by the state. This means that an instructor will not have the security of an established, tested, and approved curriculum or teaching method. Furthermore, the instructor will be teaching solely under his or her own auspices, and not those of the NRA or the State of Maryland.

Read the Maryland State Police Licensing Division Advisory LDHQLU 13-001 on the Firearms Safety Act of 2013 for details. For more information, contact the Maryland State Police."

 

[DanGuy48]

The way I read that, the instructor, or his shop, is going to be liable for any blowback in training if someone has an accident and decides to go after someone. So what instructor is going to be willing to risk that? Is this just another attempt to shut things down?

 

[kalister1]

funny how you use the word "ATTEMPT"

 

[L0gic]

The way I read it is that the instructor is not allowed to give legal advise, so because the State nor the NRA is allowed to provide an approved syllabus, the instructor has to pay a lawyer to find out what meets the vague, ambiguous and obscure letter of the law. Should the instructor fail to pay a lawyer, their course could be disapproved and everyone they taught be invalidated?

 

[kohburn]

i thought that i saw a thread on here recently to train the instructors to teach the HQL class?

 

[DanGuy48]

The way I read it is that the instructor is not allowed to give legal advise, so because the State nor the NRA is allowed to provide an approved syllabus, the instructor has to pay a lawyer to find out what meets the vague, ambiguous and obscure letter of the law. Should the instructor fail to pay a lawyer, their course could be disapproved and everyone they taught be invalidated?

That's one part. The other part is that, as an NRA instructor following the program exactly, any blowback from disgruntled students would go to the NRA and its program. Under this guideline, it goes right to the instructor. I was an instructor some years ago and our NRA liason repeatedly emphasized the importance of sticking exactly to their training program for exactly this reason.

 

[sywl95]

So I drive a car and crash, is it the driving school or MVA's fault?

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

I have had several e-mails to the NRA Training department about the whole HQL training issue.

Basically, the NRA is not going to help develop, give advice, or guidance concerning what an NRA instructor puts together for the HQL course. The MD HQL is not an educational area of interest to the NRA.

For those of us who are NRA instructors or Training Counselors, we are being advised to offer the classes at our own discretion. Furthermore, we need to advise our students that any HQL class we offer is not associated with the NRA in any way. To that end, I would strongly suggest that any current NRA instructor obtain the MSP Certified Qualified Handgun Instructor or MSP Qualified Handgun Instructor designation and offer the HQL class under that credential.

I am currently checking with the NRA Endorsed Instructor Insurance to see if liability protection for teaching the HQL class is covered. I believe that it is, but I want to verify.

 

[DanGuy48]

So I drive a car and crash, is it the driving school or MVA's fault?

If you crash during the instruction, you can sue the instructor and the school is vicariously responsible.

 

[DanGuy48]

Good info. Thanks!

I have had several e-mails to the NRA Training department about the whole HQL training issue.

Basically, the NRA is not going to help develop, give advice, or guidance concerning what an NRA instructor puts together for the HQL course. The MD HQL is not an educational area of interest to the NRA.

For those of us who are NRA instructors or Training Counselors, we are being advised to offer the classes at our own discretion. Furthermore, we need to advise our students that any HQL class we offer is not associated with the NRA in any way. To that end, I would strongly suggest that any current NRA instructor obtain the MSP Certified Qulaified Handgun Instructor or MSP Qualified Handgun Instructor designation and offer the HQL class under that credential.

I am currently checking with the NRA Endorsed Instructor Insurance to see if liability protection for teaching the HQL class is covered. I believe that it is, but I want to verify.

 

[sywl95]

Of course, if I shot myself DURING the handgun safety course, that will be the instructor's fault, that's common sense, right? (even though we all know there is no common sense within .gov) But if I shot someone or myself 2 month later, there is nothing to do with the instructor anymore, no?

If you crash during the instruction, you can sue the instructor and the school is vicariously responsible.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Another bolt in the quiver for the lawsuit.

However, IIRC, any instructor of a recognized course meets the training requirements. Which means that if you get your NRA Certified Instructor qualification, you are set.

 

[aireyc]

Of course, if I shot myself DURING the handgun safety course, that will be the instructor's fault, that's common sense, right? (even though we all know there is no common sense within .gov) But if I shot someone or myself 2 month later, there is nothing to do with the instructor anymore, no?

I don't even see how it could be the instructor's fault if you shot yourself during the course unless the instructor told you to do something that resulted in your accident or if the instructor failed to warn you that you were doing something incorrectly. If you choose to ignore what the instructor says and shoot yourself in the process, I don't see how that could be on them.

All of that being said, if it's a classroom course, I'm not sure why you would have live ammunition anyway.

 

[DanGuy48]

Of course, if I shot myself DURING the handgun safety course, that will be the instructor's fault, that's common sense, right? (even though we all know there is no common sense within .gov) But if I shot someone or myself 2 month later, there is nothing to do with the instructor anymore, no?

Well yeah. That does seem obvious, otherwise we could all go back and sue our schools and teachers when we failed in society. I should probably have not said anything though so as to not spread ideas.

 

[ShoreShooter]

The NRA, for the purposes of showing is MEMBERS it is here to help, needs to be forthcoming on what it can and will do to support this training need.

If there is something it cannot do, it needs to explain.

That is, if it wishes to receive support from Maryland gun owners.

 

[Mr Bear]

I have had several e-mails to the NRA Training department about the whole HQL training issue.

Basically, the NRA is not going to help develop, give advice, or guidance concerning what an NRA instructor puts together for the HQL course. The MD HQL is not an educational area of interest to the NRA.

For those of us who are NRA instructors or Training Counselors, we are being advised to offer the classes at our own discretion. Furthermore, we need to advise our students that any HQL class we offer is not associated with the NRA in any way. To that end, I would strongly suggest that any current NRA instructor obtain the MSP Certified Qulaified Handgun Instructor or MSP Qualified Handgun Instructor designation and offer the HQL class under that credential.

I am currently checking with the NRA Endorsed Instructor Insurance to see if liability protection for teaching the HQL class is covered. I believe that it is, but I want to verify.

Has anyone seen future classes offered for either of these designations?

 

[Robert1955]

First, for the four hour class needed to purchase a firearm, there is a requirement that instruction must be given on Maryland state law pertaining to firearms and self-defense. Rendering legal advice or interpretation is a task for attorneys, and instructors who are not licensed to practice law may wish to seek legal advice regarding the limits of what they can do in this regard .........................Read the Maryland State Police Licensing Division Advisory LDHQLU 13-001 on the Firearms Safety Act of 2013 for details. For more information, contact the Maryland State Police."

Ok, as I think about this can you just teach the normal NRA classes as you have been and just read the words as printed in the State law to cover the required instruction on Martyland laws? That way YOU are not providing legal advice thus you should not be able to be held responsible if a student screws up and tries to blame the instructor for failing to teach them properly.

 

[kohburn]

Has anyone seen future classes offered for either of these designations?

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=120204&highlight=hql+instructor

is the closest thing i've seen

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

Another bolt in the quiver for the lawsuit.

However, IIRC, any instructor of a recognized course meets the training requirements. Which means that if you get your NRA Certified Instructor qualification, you are set.

You still need to register with MSP on-line or via e-mail (attaching copies of credentials) in order to get on the MSP list of eligible HQL instructors.


The most important part is not to offer the course under your NRA credentials.

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

The NRA, for the purposes of showing is MEMBERS it is here to help, needs to be forthcoming on what it can and will do to support this training need.

If there is something it cannot do, it needs to explain.

That is, if it wishes to receive support from Maryland gun owners.

I beleive the NRA is capable of doing it (or at least assisisting in the development of a standard course). I am not sure why they appear to be ignoring this market, especially considering the historical reason for why the NRA was founded: education and training of shooters!

I am starting to believe that the NRA has 'written-off' Maryland. I will see just how committed to the fight they are come October 1, 2013. I have heard the plan to file a suit on the constitutioanly and financial impact of SB281. In thirty-three days we will see just how much the NRA is willing to fight for its members in Maryland.