RIP 9mm Ammo

[alucard0822]

No way that gel block was anywhere near 10%, the cavity looked larger than a 308 test, although it did look to be a fairly small block. Basically looks like it turns into something around a 50gr wadcutter and a few fletchettes, although at a velocity too slow to penetrate much. I think it probably ends up like glaser, DRT or extreme shock. It's too expensive to practice with, doesn't cycle reliably, underpenetrates, and while it may look impressive shooting chicken, or a small block of jello, it is outclassed by most conventional HP ammo.

 

[boricuamaximus]

They're gonna make them in .40 so that behind a 10mm powder casing might make Chuck Norris shave his beard.

 

[smokey]

No way that gel block was anywhere near 10%, the cavity looked larger than a 308 test, although it did look to be a fairly small block. Basically looks like it turns into something around a 50gr wadcutter and a few fletchettes, although at a velocity too slow to penetrate much. I think it probably ends up like glaser, DRT or extreme shock. It's too expensive to practice with, doesn't cycle reliably, underpenetrates, and while it may look impressive shooting chicken, or a small block of jello, it is outclassed by most conventional HP ammo.

yup

Meh, the primary wound cavity is pretty shallow with the only thing penetrating to the vitals being an unexpanded copper slug. The fragments only seemed to penetrate to 6" or so. While that copper slug that penetrates makes this a better choice than the terrible glaser rounds, HST's, gold dots, pdx1's, dpx's and ranger t's all make more sense to put a big hole deep in to where vitals are located. I'll take a .75"x13" wound channel over a superficial mess and .36"x16 wound channel for my defensive load any day. Whatever initial credibility they had was lost when they described the front as acting like a "hole saw" when impacting something like drywall. With it likely rotating once every 16" or so, there's not going to be much of a "sawing" action on impact.

I still would probably but a box or two just to piss off anti-gunners. They certainly look neato

As for the legal side of things, the advice ayoob gave on carrying the same load as police was based on powder residue tests. His writings said that labs need ammunition from the same lot as what you fired to get a worthwhile sampling to determine distance from powder residue. It had nothing to do with the imagined "lethality" of a round.

Even as he stated it, in md you wouldn't have much of an issue as our castle law is now because you're pretty legally covered if there's someone in your house. Whether the person you shot was 10 feet away, or 5 feet isn't going to come in to play as much as if you perceived them to be an imminent threat to you or your family. Also, any time you press a trigger you have the possibility of killing the person you're shooting. If this round makes you a killer, why wouldn't using a hollowpoint instead of a fmj make you a killer? It would be pretty easy to argue that you were looking for the load that would cause the most damage in order to most effectively stop the threat. It would also be easy to argue that you chose this round to limit pass-through, since it claims to dump the useful energy in to the target...leaving little energy to do damage on the far side.

I think people perpetuate internet myths and don't actually have any real-world experience or case law that can back it up. If you've got case law where the choice of load that was shot determined the outcome, feel free to post it up...but it's not really something that's a big deal in real life.

 

[IndispensableDestiny]

The gel block looks like it was made from cooking gelatin, not ballistic.

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

Banned?

Black Talons got pulled off the market, didn't they?

 

[TxAggie]

I watched a couple if their videos and one glaring problem came out. When you look at their ballistic gelatin tests, several times some of the trocars would escape the target and fly off in other directions. I would think this could be a serious problem with potential collateral damage.

 

[honda53s]

Possibly, but seeing the core punch thru the ballistic gel block, does make me wonder.

At $2.20 a round, I'm not going for it.

$2.20 a round isn't such a bad price when your last two order of ammo were 50bmg and 500 S&W. I really wonder if this would cause any problems with feed ramps and gauging of any parts.

 

[smokey]

I watched a couple if their videos and one glaring problem came out. When you look at their ballistic gelatin tests, several times some of the trocars would escape the target and fly off in other directions. I would think this could be a serious problem with potential collateral damage.

That's also because they were firing into a 6x6x18 block. Here it is in a 12x12x20...



Notice that the fragments have all stopped around the 5" mark .... well ...except for that unexpanded base that all the petals broke off from. That little chunk of nothing is out there around the 17" mark and that is what would give you the biggest chance of a liability. The fragments would pretty much bleed off all their energy with very little left to do much damage even if they just went in and out of an arm.

 

[smokey]

$2.20 a round isn't such a bad price when your last two order of ammo were 50bmg and 500 S&W. I really wonder if this would cause any problems with feed ramps and gauging of any parts.

the bullets wouldn't cause any abnormal wear as they're made out of the same thing normal fmj's are jacketed in, copper. It's softer than the steel your gun is made of and wouldn't do anything wacky. They may not feed well in all guns though.

 

[240 towles]

shut up and take my money!

 

[johnnyb2]

Too destructive.

Check out the damage the 9mm round does to this store bought unfrozen whole chicken. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWINwccJ37U

WOW, this round would absolutely DEVASTATE a human being. I mean, it definitely looks like a one shot stopper, but, it also seems too destructive hitting human flesh. Especially seeing what it does to this chicken.

Nasty, nasty stuff.

 

[johnnyb2]

I don't think there would be much of a arm left........hahahahaha

 

[Baccusboy]

It's all a farce.

As mentioned, the gel block is not at all what a gel block is supposed to be.

Experts in the field likely look at this "test" and chuckle.

A fool and his money....

 

[Nry2137]

That's different, I wonder if all those edges might damage or catch somewhere in the weapon or magazine.

 

[systemmaster]

Couple boxes on gun broker going for the low, low price of $255 for 20rds. That's only $12.75 per rd! What a deal...pass.

 

[alucard0822]

That's also because they were firing into a 6x6x18 block. Here it is in a 12x12x20...



Notice that the fragments have all stopped around the 5" mark .... well ...except for that unexpanded base that all the petals broke off from. That little chunk of nothing is out there around the 17" mark and that is what would give you the biggest chance of a liability. The fragments would pretty much bleed off all their energy with very little left to do much damage even if they just went in and out of an arm.

This stuff reminds me of this "test" showing why one snake oil company's bullet was better, look at the difference starting around 1:30, and the "test" around 2:20, they are magic, have 6 times the energy of a FMJ


Solid guilding metal bullets can cause increased wear and pressure, a solid chunk of copper doesn't deform to the rifling like copper jacketed lead, so most have relief band cut into them, or a softer alloy to reduce pressure, if these do, then they are probably OK, if they are a hard alloy without relief bands they might accelerate wear, or increase chamber pressure, although no telling if it would be enough for any real-world difference. There is one thing about shooting thawed chicken, light hollow bones that splinter, and low density muscle look impressive. Hitting on the face of the breast really only has a couple inches of meat, but a lot of thin bone to blow the fatty back out. Kinda like shooting watermelons, they are big, mostly water, and don't stretch much, hit one with most any round and it explodes.

 

[AssMan]

I call BS. Especially the part where the projectile acts "like a hole saw" to cut through wood, steel, etc. No f'ing way.

 

[Gryphon]

If only it was black it would be really scary - and definitely banned - even if it failed to feed 9 out of 10 times!

On a serious note, if it gets good reviews by reputable folks, then I might buy a box and put it in the safe next top the 20 year old Black Talons - maybe they will mate and multiple some kind of hybrids in the dark!

BTW, was this first reported on The Onion?

 

[Lou45]

I think the friggin' anti 2A libtards are here now, 2 members and 15 guests viewing this thread 1 minute ago. Let's watch the number of guests reduce to almost zero in a minute or two. You anti 2A pieces of shit, GO HOME!!!!!!!!!!!

18 guests now.

 

[lee2]

I think the friggin' anti 2A libtards are here now, 2 members and 15 guests viewing this thread 1 minute ago. Let's watch the number of guests reduce to almost zero in a minute or two. You anti 2A pieces of shit, GO HOME!!!!!!!!!!!

18 guests now.

theyre all from Westminster.