Retired Cmmdr of MSP Licensing Division: O'Malley, Brown kidding themselves w FSA2013

[Vile Shadow]

Everyone who CAN get a permit, no matter the reason, should. Let them keep adding "special classes" to the list.

No. No more ******** "special classes"

The only "special class" we need is everyone who isn't a violent felon and knows how to shoot gets a permit if they apply for one.

 

[Straightshooter]

No. No more ******** "special classes"

The only "special class" we need is everyone who isn't a violent felon and knows how to shoot gets a permit if they apply for one.

So you're saying that until "everyone" can get a permit, all permits should be revoked?

 

[Minuteman]

Everyone who CAN get a permit, no matter the reason, should. Let them keep adding "special classes" to the list.

Yes! Keep going down the line. When you get to the end and look back, it will be obvious that everyone should have had a permit, unless they were specifically prohibited. Hence 'shall issue'.

No. No more ******** "special classes"

The only "special class" we need is everyone who isn't a violent felon and knows how to shoot gets a permit if they apply for one.

Sorry brother, let me try a different analogy. We already have a bus (legal basis for a permit system), and there are already some people on the bus (special classes of people, like cops, security guards, businessmen, doctors, a few others); we only need more people getting on the bus. I also feel utility workers, home inspectors, real estate and folks who work in the transportation industry are all also 'special classes'. Just like EMS, fire/rescue, school teachers and administrators. Get it?

So you're saying that until "everyone" can get a permit, all permits should be revoked?

I don't think he's saying people should be getting off the bus, I think he's saying he's near the back of the line and isn't sure he'll be able to get on; so we should all be walking.

I agree with the we should all be together, the difference is I think we will all get there faster if we use the bus we already have; just keep putting more of us in it.

Riding beats walking my friend.

 

[Minuteman]

Our motto should be "Get on the bus!"

Sticking with this analogy for another minute. We should also be fixing the bus, like getting rid of those silly restrictions.

Making the price of a bus ticket cheaper. Why does a bus pass expire after two years when you first get one, then expire every three years after that? The police (a special class, already on the bus), lobbied that the bus pass should be good for them for five years. That bill did not pass, but if it had, if its good enough for that rider, why not make that the same rule for everyone on the bus?

The strongest argument against what many of us are saying, i.e. let more people on the bus; is that some fear that once you get people on the bus, they won't help fix it and won't want others to get on the bus. I know this is probably true for a lot of people. I've often heard, especially from my LEO friends, that they don't trust other people with guns. That's the wrong attitude, and my biggest concern. But the good news is that there are a lot of folks on the bus, working on the bus, and trying hard to get other people on the bus.

This is a serious civil rights issue; its less about guns. It's about treating people equal and the right to self defense.

 

[teratos]

No. No more ******** "special classes"



The only "special class" we need is everyone who isn't a violent felon and knows how to shoot gets a permit if they apply for one.

Keep adding people to "the list" and eventually everyone is on it....

 

[Vile Shadow]

So you're saying that until "everyone" can get a permit, all permits should be revoked?

Not at all. I'm demanding "shall issue", like just about every other state has, yet their streets don't run red with blood.

 

[teratos]

Not at all. I'm demanding "shall issue", like just about every other state has, yet their streets don't run red with blood.

As are all of us.

 

[Gryphon]

Slingblade has a perspective which I can appreciate. The more "special classes" that get on the "bus" the more that are not deprived and the less those on the bus may be motivated to fight for those left off. Certainly not all, and not most here, but many on the bus will be happy to have a ride and not worry about those walking. The more left walking the greater the uproar against those limiting the numbers allowed on the bus even though there should be enough buses and room for all. Why should anyone be left off the bus?

"Special classes" inherently mean "lesser classes." Barring a loss of one's rights via felony conviction or by mental illness, everyone should have the same equal rights. I will go so far as to say - even though it will undoubtedly piss some off here - that off duty and retired LEO should have no greater right to carry than the average guy. I'm certainly not saying they shouldn't be allowed to carry, I am saying everyone else that has not forfeited or lost their right should be as well. I don't begrudge those on the bus with a permit or as off duty/retired LEO, but I don't like seeing so many people walking. I know the rest of you don't like it either, but we need a sweeping change not just a few crumbs here and there from the elitist ass hats in power.

 

[Vile Shadow]

Yes! Keep going down the line. When you get to the end and look back, it will be obvious that everyone should have had a permit, unless they were specifically prohibited. Hence 'shall issue'.

Exactly. That's the ideal "special class".

Sorry brother, let me try a different analogy. We already have a bus (legal basis for a permit system), and there are already some people on the bus (special classes of people, like cops, security guards, businessmen, doctors, a few others); we only need more people getting on the bus. I also feel utility workers, home inspectors, real estate and folks who work in the transportation industry are all also 'special classes'. Just like EMS, fire/rescue, school teachers and administrators. Get it?

If that's what it take to make us like a normal state, then I'll take it.

 

[rdc]

Slingblade has a perspective which I can appreciate. The more "special classes" that get on the "bus" the more that are not deprived and the less those on the bus may be motivated to fight for those left off. Certainly not all, and not most here, but many on the bus will be happy to have a ride and not worry about those walking.

This is my concern also. I encountered a lot of "I have mine" mentality prior to SB281. I think the same can does and will happen with permits. And yes I know several people here have permits and are still actively fighting the fight for all of us. For that I thank you whole heartedly.
I guess I just have less faith in people than a lot of you guys do.

 

[Brooklyn]

The suffrage movement is the model.
The court all not do all the heavy lifting.

Please look at the only historical model that has ever worked.

 

[Minuteman]

I'm saying we lost our right incrementally, one bad gun law at a time; so I'm just proposing we change or remove these bad laws and get our rights back incrementally. Yes, I'd love to see a 'shall issue' bill, Delegate Smieigel did the most in my opinion to try to make this happen.

One more important point about supporting anyone who can carry - that's one more armed law-abiding citizen out there that could be a hero and save a life. I know the counter argument, that person carrying the gun might do something bad with it, or might accidentally shoot an innocent bystander. I agree, bad things do sometime happen; but guns are used overwhelming for normal everyday good things.

 

[Minuteman]

This is my concern also. I encountered a lot of "I have mine" mentality prior to SB281. I think the same can does and will happen with permits. And yes I know several people here have permits and are still actively fighting the fight for all of us. For that I thank you whole heartedly.
I guess I just have less faith in people than a lot of you guys do.

Good point. But what's the alternative, do nothing until there is sweeping legislation that passes the makes Maryland 'shall issue'? Believe me even in states that have 'shall issue' are still fighting over details - this will never end; it's an incremental fight, like it or not.

 

[teratos]

This is my concern also. I encountered a lot of "I have mine" mentality prior to SB281. I think the same can does and will happen with permits. And yes I know several people here have permits and are still actively fighting the fight for all of us. For that I thank you whole heartedly.
I guess I just have less faith in people than a lot of you guys do.

I think a small majority of the board/officers of MSI have carry permits. Not positive on that, though.

 

[Gryphon]

Good point. But what's the alternative, do nothing until there is sweeping legislation that passes the makes Maryland 'shall issue'? Believe me even in states that have 'shall issue' are still fighting over details - this will never end; it's an incremental fight, like it or not.

It would be nice, but I am not optimistic for legislation and we don't need it. We need a back bone and someone who doesn't look down upon us mere minions. Even if just for 4 years, that will be enough to get lots a permits and carrying without an apocalyptic outcome, and the genie will be out of the bottle.

 

[redeemed.man]

We don't need legislation, we need a back bone and someone who doesn't look down upon us mere minions. Even if just for 4 years, that will be enough to get lots a permits and carrying without an apocalyptic outcome, and the genie will be out of the bottle.

True. Very true.

 

[teratos]

It would be nice, but I am not optimistic for legislation and we don't need it. We need a back bone and someone who doesn't look down upon us mere minions. Even if just for 4 years, that will be enough to get lots a permits and carrying without an apocalyptic outcome, and the genie will be out of the bottle.

I don't know that 4 years of wide-spread carry will change any minds. The fact that "assault weapons" haven't killed a Marylander in years didn't make a bit of difference. This is a crusade based on feelings, not facts.

 

[Straightshooter]

It would be nice, but I am not optimistic for legislation and we don't need it. We need a back bone and someone who doesn't look down upon us mere minions. Even if just for 4 years, that will be enough to get lots a permits and carrying without an apocalyptic outcome, and the genie will be out of the bottle.

This is why the man doesn't want to issue any more permits than absolutely necessary. If hard fact numbers on crimes committed by CCW permit holders show anything but carnage on the streets, (which it would) they loose their thunder.

P.S. I know several people in the battle that already have permits and a more active bunch of fighters for the cause you will not find.

 

[Gryphon]

I don't know that 4 years of wide-spread carry will change any minds. The fact that "assault weapons" haven't killed a Marylander in years didn't make a bit of difference. This is a crusade based on feelings, not facts.

Absolutely true but that was with MOM and a hanful of grabbers at the helm and cracking the whip. They motivated the legislature, not the population/voters, to pass SB281. The anti's barely bothered to show up at hearings. Lots of permits, lots of carry, no apocalypse, and the general population will be worried about some other shiny object.

 

[teratos]

Absolutely true but that was with MOM and a hanful of grabbers at the helm and cracking the whip. They motivated the legislature, not the population/voters, to pass SB281. The anti's barely bothered to show up at hearings. Lots of permits, lots of carry, no apocalypse, and the general population will be worried about some other shiny object.

I hope you are correct.