Retired Cmmdr of MSP Licensing Division: O'Malley, Brown kidding themselves w FSA2013

[rambling_one]

Unless you ever worked for DoD, I don't think ISIS is targeting you; at least for now.[QUOTE/]

Having worked thirty-eight years for DoD, it looks like the links you provided should be of concern to me, my family and those who have denied me the right of self-protection.

Records are everywhere - the VA, American Legion/DAV/VFW membership lists, people's auto tags, bumber stickers... .

This issue is huge!

 

[redeemed.man]

Big enough threat that DOD has said do not wear uniforms around. Who knows what these lone wolf people might do. Just today, a DC officer was attacked with an ax.

Terrorist attack? Or regular DC inner city violence?

 

[Mike OTDP]

I wonder what would happen if we asked Congress to intervene in the intrests of national security? Not kiding...QUOTE]

It's not a bad idea at all. The trick would be to extend it to all DOD personnel, both uniformed and civilian.

 

[Minuteman]

Unless you ever worked for DoD, I don't think ISIS is targeting you; at least for now.[QUOTE/]

Having worked thirty-eight years for DoD, it looks like the links you provided should be of concern to me, my family and those who have denied me the right of self-protection.

Records are everywhere - the VA, American Legion/DAV/VFW membership lists, people's auto tags, bumber stickers... .

This issue is huge!

Yes sir, you make an excellent point. I am equally concerned for not only government workers (military, civilian, contractors and retirees); who knows who will be next on these terrorists 'hit lists'.

We all realize that virtually all crime committed by felons is drug and/or gang related; despite the media sensationalizing and running 24 hour news of the extremely rare and tragic accident or mass shooting. By the way, all of these have been done by crazy people (you have to be crazy by definition to kill people).

I was very surprised to hear the current director of the FBI (great man from what I've seen and heard); that they are watching possible terrorist on our own soil. That should give all of us some concern.

This can be really simple, working within the current rules of Maryland law and even current policy of the MDSP:

• Does the applicant have a US Government clearance, or pass an NCIC check?
• Does the individual possess an HQL or otherwise qualified (retired military or LEO, etc)?
• Is the person otherwise disqualified from owning a firearm?

If the answer to all of these questions is a go - for goodness sake, give them a carry permit without all any silly restrictions. Folks, it does not get easier than this.

I wonder what would happen if we asked Congress to intervene in the intrests of national security? Not kiding...QUOTE]

It's not a bad idea at all. The trick would be to extend it to all DOD personnel, both uniformed and civilian.

Yep, this would be something like a national reciprocity, but for federal employees (mil and civilian&contractors).

Then after this, why not allow airline pilots who are already allowed to carry while flying to be able to carry (armed) to and from the airport, or any place else? We already trust them with hundreds of lives everyday, they already demonstrate quantifiable excellent judgement.

Maybe later, lets talk about other professions that pass a security clearance, require quantifiable judgement and get firearms/legal training.

 

[redeemed.man]

I strongly disagree with adding more "special" classes of people to the MSP G&S. No disrespect to former & current military and/or Federal employees but the regular guy deserves to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

 

[JamesH]

I strongly disagree with adding more "special" classes of people to the MSP G&S. No disrespect to former & current military and/or Federal employees but the regular guy deserves to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

While I agree that everyone should have their 2A rights restored, I think it would be to everyone's benefit to find as many opportunities as possible to take back our rights on an individual or group basis. If even one more law-abiding citizen can get their CCW, we've made our state a safer place.

 

[rambling_one]

I strongly disagree with adding more "special" classes of people to the MSP G&S. No disrespect to former & current military and/or Federal employees but the regular guy deserves to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

It isn't that a certain group is "special," but rather that a certain group has been specifically targeted. As to your point, all law-abiding citizens should be able to defend themselves. That's why Maryland's G&S requirement must be rescinded.

 

[Brooklyn]

I strongly disagree with adding more "special" classes of people to the MSP G&S. No disrespect to former & current military and/or Federal employees but the regular guy deserves to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

The idea is to bypass msp with a federal lic.

Of course they also could remove special classes of persons in the next session. Which is better?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

The idea is to bypass msp with a federal lic.

Of course they also could remove special classes of persons in the next session. Which is better?

Removing special classes. Pits a lot more people up against the restriction as a whole. A right denied to one is a right which can be denied to all, arbitrarily, at any time. So why not put everyone in the same boat so we can get everyone to the right place?

If you accept the idea of special classes who have the right, you accept the idea that the state of Maryland gets to decide who does and who does not deserve Constitutionally guaranteed rights using wholly subjective tests which can only be described as arbitrary and capricious at best. I don't accept that idea. The entire concept should either be abolished in the legislature or struck down by a court. In either case, no special classes.

 

[Brooklyn]

Removing special classes. Pits a lot more people up against the restriction as a whole. A right denied to one is a right which can be denied to all, arbitrarily, at any time. So why not put everyone in the same boat so we can get everyone to the right place?

If you accept the idea of special classes who have the right, you accept the idea that the state of Maryland gets to decide who does and who does not deserve Constitutionally guaranteed rights using wholly subjective tests which can only be described as arbitrary and capricious at best. I don't accept that idea. The entire concept should either be abolished in the legislature or struck down by a court. In either case, no special classes.

If thats how you want to play it you will lose. Just like you have been for 100 YEARS.

Now what if we get smart. What if we

1. Make a mockery of the public safety arguement by putting several hundred thousand armed citizens on the street.
2. Make a mockery of special clases BY DEFINING ENOUGH SUCH CLASSES THAT EVEYONE FITS IN AT LEAST ONE CLASS ( hint...this is how we got universal suffrage )

3. Do all this in such a way that the oposition claims it is wining all the way to defeat.


The clock is ticking....we have to get smart.

 

[Vile Shadow]

It isn't that a certain group is "special," but rather that a certain group has been specifically targeted. As to your point, all law-abiding citizens should be able to defend themselves. That's why Maryland's G&S requirement must be rescinded.

I could weigh in on that one, given what I do for a living. But the last time I did that one of the idiots around here cried.

 

[Mark75H]

Removing special classes. Pits a lot more people up against the restriction as a whole. A right denied to one is a right which can be denied to all, arbitrarily, at any time. So why not put everyone in the same boat so we can get everyone to the right place?

If you accept the idea of special classes who have the right, you accept the idea that the state of Maryland gets to decide who does and who does not deserve Constitutionally guaranteed rights using wholly subjective tests which can only be described as arbitrary and capricious at best. I don't accept that idea. The entire concept should either be abolished in the legislature or struck down by a court. In either case, no special classes.

Article I, Section 9, Clause 8: "No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States"

From the time I was in elementary school, I took this clause to mean all US Citizens were equal and no restriction could be put on any group and no special rights could be assigned to any individual or group.

Since then, the oppressive states have decided otherwise.

 

[janklow]

It isn't that a certain group is "special," but rather that a certain group has been specifically targeted.

i believe he is referring to currently-in-effect "special groups"

 

[woodstock]

Article I, Section 9, Clause 8: "No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States"

From the time I was in elementary school, I took this clause to mean all US Citizens were equal and no restriction could be put on any group and no special rights could be assigned to any individual or group.

Since then, the oppressive states have decided otherwise.

from sitting in on the appeals board, you must have to be in "reasonable apprehended danger greater than the general population." seriously.

 

[woodstock]

If thats how you want to play it you will lose. Just like you have been for 100 YEARS.

Now what if we get smart. What if we

1. Make a mocary of the public safety arguement by putting several hundred thousand armed citizens on the street.
2. Make a mocary of special clases BY DEFINING ENOUGH SUCH CLASSES THAT EVEYONE FITS IN AT LEAST ONE CLASS ( hint...this is how we got universal suffrage )

3. Do all this in such a way that the oposition claims it is wining all the way to defeat.


The clock is ticking....we have to get smart.

Mockery not mocary. Words mean much, especially if written correctly.

 

[Brooklyn]

Mockery not mocary. Words mean much, especially if written correctly.

Thanks will fix.

 

[gamer_jim]

... I retired from the State Police, giving up the only life I had known since I was 18, so that I could educate our citizens on the true causes of violence...

This needs to be the focus of our gun rights debate. Bloomberg, MDA or the brady bunch all claim that they have the honorable goal of reducing violence.

I wonder if we could start a campaign, maybe called it "The Truth About Violence". Focus on what really causes people to act violently and what to do about it. Maybe produce a few videos with interviews from people like Jack McCauley and Dan Bongino.

 

[Minuteman]

I strongly disagree with adding more "special" classes of people to the MSP G&S. No disrespect to former & current military and/or Federal employees but the regular guy deserves to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

Thank you for the polite discourse.

This is a very important issue, one that I have been somewhat 'at odds' with many people including my favorite organization - MSI.

Yes, you are right, you are all right, everyone should be treated equal and everyone should be allowed to carry a firearm. It true, its even in the Constitution and the right to self protection is a human right - you are instinctively born to defend yourself, if not, none of us would be alive today.

My point is not about the principle, but about strategy. Current law already creates 'special classes' of people who are given permits and allowed to carry in most places under most situations. The police carry guns, the military, armed security, these are all 'special classes' of people right? In Maryland today, there are other 'special classes' of people that frequently get permits, like business folks, doctors and some other professions. This issue will never be over, it will never be settled; there will always be someone who will feel they are in the back of the line. I'm just asking people to realize there is a line. The line starts with the judge who decides who can carry in her court room, then it moves to the police officer who pulled you over on your way to court, it keeps going and going down the line of 'special classes' until you get near the end of the line and we start having a discussion about a rehabilitated former felon who wants a CC permit because its a violation of his rights that he committed a non-violent crime 15 years ago.

Like Smokey0118 said in another thread, when a citizen gets arrested for merely being in possession of a firearm; we should not mock her for being a 'dumb-ass', we should join together and help fight on her side and through these 'test cases' get bad laws changed.

I'm saying I 100% agree with the principle, AND I'm proposing a strategy to get us there; adding more and more 'special classes' of people until we arrive right back where we all started and everyone had sticks and stones.

With me?

 

[teratos]

I strongly disagree with adding more "special" classes of people to the MSP G&S. No disrespect to former & current military and/or Federal employees but the regular guy deserves to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

Everyone who CAN get a permit, no matter the reason, should. Let them keep adding "special classes" to the list.

 

[Mr H]

There are 4 things that be done right now to begin the normalization of OC in Maryland.

Two of them have already been discussed widely... Home Carry and LE (off-duty) OC.

The other 2 require more detailed coordination, but can be done in fairly short order. I'll be happy to discuss them in person, but not here.