REPEAL SB 281

[ShoreShooter]

We `are not conservatives. If that's your goal you should move. If you think I am going to kill my chances to win by trying to turn MD into Texas -- sorry ..

Now win what you can here -- or leave..


If we overplay we lose-- and even if we win -- the infection will spread to other states. That can't happen. Md must always remain, in part, a cesspool - a safe haven for liberal idiocy --- there will always be crime -- it is not in the interest of the surrounding states to allow it to spread..

Thus some states must be sacrificed -- I assumed this was well understood.

MD role is to create an open air prison in order to make other areas safer. Baltimore is a good place for that since its already a failed city.

We need to tip the balance just enough to prevent the spread -- then if the Baltimorons get a clue they will come to our way of thinking If not its on them.


Our message is simple -- piss in your own drinking water not mine.

It has the advantage of being true and may even work -- but trust me when I say the best proponent of conservative values is the long term failure of liberal ones. I repeat we are not in sad shape -- we are right on schedule.

Feel free to guess if this is a satire-- I have long ago lost track and I stoped caring even before that ..

This is so nihilistic I am left speechless.

Carry on.

 

[ShoreShooter]

On the point of building alliances / coalitions with other folks who are like minded in a broad sense but not necessarily passionate about 2A per se ...

There is some hugely positive news today on a topic I doubt many on this board even know has been a huge issue for the state. Totally unrelated to 2A, but hold that thought and check this out:


http://news.maryland.gov/mda/press-...o-consider-comments-and-resubmit-regulations/


The environmental groups have been shutting down ag in MD, particularly poultry, one step at a time for decades. Led by the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, but is much broader than just that one group. This proposed new reg is canceled for the moment. No one has surrendered, and one can expect a fresh assault, but this reg is canceled.

Why is this important to 2A?

1) It can be done, against odds.
2) Some in that camp knew how to do, and did it.
3) It would be useful to understand, at a minimum, how they did it.
4) These folks are not as natural an ally of 2A as some might believe. But clearly would be a powerful group to woo. They won. On a fight as hard as SB 281.
5) There was a weakness, somewhere, that was exploited.

Anyone who has a beef with the oppressive MD Dem government is a potential ally. These are other groups who can also organize votes for the same candidates we support. In a perfect world there would be some strong central organization like a state RNC or other political entity to lead an organized effort, but there isn't one, so if we want to succeed we have to do it the hard way. The state RNC has been in disarray and it is unclear what its condition will be in the near term as it attempts to regroup.

It would be unwise to blow off news like this. One must take the lessons where they are found.

 

[Brooklyn]

This is so nihilistic I am left speechless.

Carry on.

Sometimes when you stare into the abyss it stares back. Then even liberals are ready to get to work

 

[Brooklyn]

On the point of building alliances / coalitions with other folks who are like minded in a broad sense but not necessarily passionate about 2A per se ...

There is some hugely positive news today on a topic I doubt many on this board even know has been a huge issue for the state. Totally unrelated to 2A, but hold that thought and check this out:


http://news.maryland.gov/mda/press-...o-consider-comments-and-resubmit-regulations/


The environmental groups have been shutting down ag in MD, particularly poultry, one step at a time for decades. Led by the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, but is much broader than just that one group. This proposed new reg is canceled for the moment. No one has surrendered, and one can expect a fresh assault, but this reg is canceled.

Why is this important to 2A?

1) It can be done, against odds.
2) Some in that camp knew how to do, and did it.
3) It would be useful to understand, at a minimum, how they did it.
4) These folks are not as natural an ally of 2A as some might believe. But clearly would be a powerful group to woo. They won. On a fight as hard as SB 281.
5) There was a weakness, somewhere, that was exploited.

Anyone who has a beef with the oppressive MD Dem government is a potential ally. These are other groups who can also organize votes for the same candidates we support. In a perfect world there would be some strong central organization like a state RNC or other political entity to lead an organized effort, but there isn't one, so if we want to succeed we have to do it the hard way. The state RNC has been in disarray and it is unclear what its condition will be in the near term as it attempts to regroup.

It would be unwise to blow off news like this. One must take the lessons where they are found.

Do you have a contact?

The only thing I know about AG is that I saw a cow once

But we may have folks that can liaison -- maybe even yourself..

 

[ShoreShooter]

You may have already guessed I have been working on folks with other interests.

For quite a while.

The problem is each group is hallucinating, thinking there will be some broad spontaneous uprising in support of THEIR cause, because THEIR cause is obviously so just that the entire population will just climb on board.

Just like this group.

The reality is, it is hard even to get grain farmers to care about poultry farmers, until poultry issues spill over into grain. Let alone on issues that are not clearly related.

For starters, other groups need to be receptive to the idea of alliances, to be even welcome to discussion. Many are no more interested in that than this group has proven to be.

Perhaps in time.

This attitude is slowly breaking down. On the Shore last year, a huge amount of money was raised in support of the Hudson family for their legal battles. This was a major win, that folks here probably have no idea about and could care less.

 

[Mr H]

On the point of building alliances / coalitions with other folks who are like minded in a broad sense but not necessarily passionate about 2A per se ...

There is some hugely positive news today on a topic I doubt many on this board even know has been a huge issue for the state. Totally unrelated to 2A, but hold that thought and check this out:


http://news.maryland.gov/mda/press-...o-consider-comments-and-resubmit-regulations/


The environmental groups have been shutting down ag in MD, particularly poultry, one step at a time for decades. Led by the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, but is much broader than just that one group. This proposed new reg is canceled for the moment. No one has surrendered, and one can expect a fresh assault, but this reg is canceled.

Why is this important to 2A?

1) It can be done, against odds.
2) Some in that camp knew how to do, and did it.
3) It would be useful to understand, at a minimum, how they did it.
4) These folks are not as natural an ally of 2A as some might believe. But clearly would be a powerful group to woo. They won. On a fight as hard as SB 281.
5) There was a weakness, somewhere, that was exploited.

Anyone who has a beef with the oppressive MD Dem government is a potential ally. These are other groups who can also organize votes for the same candidates we support. In a perfect world there would be some strong central organization like a state RNC or other political entity to lead an organized effort, but there isn't one, so if we want to succeed we have to do it the hard way. The state RNC has been in disarray and it is unclear what its condition will be in the near term as it attempts to regroup.

It would be unwise to blow off news like this. One must take the lessons where they are found.

VERY interesting.

Not circles I travel in, but it would be interesting to know more about this.

You are absolutely correct about the disjointed nature of advocacy for conservative issues in general, and 2A in particular. This is something we as a community are improving, and this past 18 months has been amazing in that.

We are also continuing to work both publicly and behind the scenes to create new contacts, forge new alliances, and bring old partners back together, to move even closer to a degree of freedom and sensibility we've not seen in decades.

We have a very good oportunity to return to being "The Free State". But we all need to remember to stop shooting inside the tent.

Stay tuned.

 

[timbig1]

Maryland can change in 2014 talk about the gas tax and rain tax this is the way I get the people to wake up about the democrat, so called common sense laws about guns.

 

[ShoreShooter]

Maryland can change in 2014 talk about the gas tax and rain tax this is the way I get the people to wake up about the democrat, so called common sense laws about guns.

YES

If something comes along that wakes people up and causes them to vote the "right way", should we really care what issue it is that motivates them?

Brooklyn made the point it is important not to over-reach. He is spot on. The MD Dem machine has over-reached and stepped in it, just as Obama has done with healthcare. That makes them vulnerable, but only if it is exploited. Our side is in such disarray broadly that exploiting it is easy to say, and hard to do.

 

[Brooklyn]

You may have already guessed I have been working on folks with other interests.

For quite a while.

The problem is each group is hallucinating, thinking there will be some broad spontaneous uprising in support of THEIR cause, because THEIR cause is obviously so just that the entire population will just climb on board.

Just like this group.

The reality is, it is hard even to get grain farmers to care about poultry farmers, until poultry issues spill over into grain. Let alone on issues that are not clearly related.

For starters, other groups need to be receptive to the idea of alliances, to be even welcome to discussion. Many are no more interested in that than this group has proven to be.

Perhaps in time.

This attitude is slowly breaking down. On the Shore last year, a huge amount of money was raised in support of the Hudson family for their legal battles. This was a major win, that folks here probably have no idea about and could care less.

Make the contacts ...

As individuals we have much more flexibility than as an organisation -- so do not assume that because MSI feels the need to stay single issue that thr individuals involved will. I can prove that is not the case.

Keep us informed.

I heard of some of the legal issue in the Farm area --I have attended community meetings in parkton and parts of ciel county but I am only one guy .. been west and north mostly -- south and the shore not so much..

I can assure you my goal is to raise a little hell every place I can..

Would love to help out if I can...

keep us informed ...

 

[ShoreShooter]

"Not circles I travel in, but it would be interesting to know more about this."

I want to respect your request, but this is a tough one. To make sense of it there are so many pieces to the backstory it would take a novel to do it justice, and no one man will get it just right. I will take a stab at it BRIEFLY that is so overly simplified I cannot do it justice, but here goes ...

A piece of the story is ag in general, poultry perhaps more narrowly but far from exclusively. A piece of the story is in the history of the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, but is far more broad to include a spiderweb of other environmental groups like the River Keepers organized and funded by the Kennedy family. A piece of it is just plain old local politics, of rewarding your friends and punishing your enemies. Lots more too.

The economy of the Shore is heavy in agriculture, apart from tourism in a few spots like Ocean City, and tiny other bits in places like St. Michaels, Easton, and far less so in Chestertown. Other industry is sparse and generally lacking in any concentration of type. Most counties have their government and schools as the largest employer, or among the top.

Back in the day, vegetable farming was big, in crops like tomatoes, cantalopes, cucumbers, and so forth. Every small town had a cannery. That died abruptly in about the mid-1960's when MD passed some laws dealing with migrant labor needed to harvest the crops. Everyone switched to grain that is purely mechanized, right at a time when the machines improved dramatically.

Part of the reason was the rise of poultry on the Shore. Perdue is what many point to, but it was much more broad than that. Perdue has survived where others have not, and some have simply sold out and are other brand names like Tyson. Back when they were growing fast, the Shore was an exporter of the new high supply of grain, and poultry could buy its raw materials locally at a discount due to low shipping cost. Today, by the way, the Shore is a net importer of grain, because poultry is that big and that important to the economy. I won't stray into the reasons why the Shore is a good place for poultry, apart from the local government challenges.

The 1960's also spawned a lot of environment hippies, who grew up to make a living out of their marches. The Chesapeake Bay Foundation was one among many. In my view, most of these began for the right reasons with a just cause, but strayed from the path to become more self-serving money making machines than causes with pure motives. It is much like labor unions which were very much needed in the 1930's to curb clear abuses, but outlived their mission and usefulness and survive to line some pockets.

The bay foundation and other groups would be funny if it were not so sad. Each year they issue new reports that say progress has been made ... in the form of some new regulation and tax ... but the water quality of the Bay is worse. The more they do, the worse it seems to get. But they receive a lot of government funding, drive a lot of votes, and make a lot of political donations. It is an unholy alliance with the political class.

But not just with the political class. They are after the money. MANY watermen would tell you the Bay was severely damaged by silt that smothered the Bay when the Conowingo dam gates were fully opened in Hurricane Agnes a few decades ago. There are a lot of issues about the impact of that dam. This is one of the largest hydro electricity plants in the US, owned by Excelon power in Philly. So why is it the Chesapeake Bay Foundation has been opposed to any and all action to deal with dam issues, until some very tepid involvement only very recently. Not only were they hands off on this, they have been very actively trying to get the State to leave it alone. When that story is told many suspect it will be a simple "follow the money" story.

Instead, all eyes have focused on fertilizer and nutrient issues, and exclusively on sources from the Shore and very specifically not from the western shore. The Shore has never been a part of the urban MD machine. The Shore opposes its tax money being spent on all of the constant subsidies to Baltimore and elsewhere. Which the bay foundation exploits by using the Shore as its whipping boy as it seeks to do "something" in order to justify its existence.

When the reality is, the poundage of raw nutrients hitting the Bay from the regular occurrence of accidents in Essex and elsewhere dwarf the impact of ag runoff. Silt from Conowingo issues dwarf any issues from storm water management on the western shore that the rain tax is taxing. Follow the money, and you see the rain tax is supposed to be funneled into environmental spending via organizations like the bay foundation. Follow the money on Conowingo and the theory is the money comes from protecting Conowingo. You don't like the rain tax? The Chesapeake Bay Foundation is going to wind up with a chunk of it, but also expect that Baltimore will wind up with a chunk of it too.

So where that leaves things is that Bay issues and ag issues are intertwined with punishing the Shore, and in rewarding environmental groups who rally 95 corridor votes and supply donations, laundered through environmental activism, from your tax dollars. Environmentalists need to "do something" to justify their existence, so yesterday's initiative is never enough. The western shore has only seen the slightest taste of this in the rain tax that pales in comparison to what the Shore has seen for decades, and in even daring to touch the western shore the over-reach has occurred. Due to greed, because having milked the Shore for everything it's worth they now have tried to dip into other pockets for small pennies and it is blowing up.

One can be for labor and hate unions. One can be for the Bay and be opposed to the environmentalists. One can be for equality and improved race relations and be opposed to shakedown artists like Jesse. It really is pretty similar.

These are all bigger, broader, and laden with more money and votes than 2A could ever hope to be. That game is much bigger, much more professional and much better funded than the 2A issue is, by a country mile. The channel of money from elsewhere in the State into Baltimore and PG is a bigger and deeper issue going back many decades, and dwarfs us. But it is a big part of the landscape of our fight. If 2A is a pawn issue in the bigger games, we need to understand that, and why it isn't necessarily about 2A or constitutional matters. If we are playing defense using approaches and arguments no one cares about, it will all continue to fall on deaf ears. I have no ideas, or you would have heard them, but we'll get further if we as a pawn can be played by them in support of something bigger they want, than we will as minor roadkill on their highway to other places.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Maryland can change in 2014 talk about the gas tax and rain tax this is the way I get the people to wake up about the democrat, so called common sense laws about guns.

Not to bust balls, but we have crazy tax laws and crazy gun laws because crazy people voted for crazy politicians so they could create crazy laws.

It's a horrible, vicious circle that I'm afraid will never end.

Like Justice John Roberts said: The people get what the people vote for.

That's why we have been saddled with Obamacare. A truely "Shovel Ready" program if I ever saw one.

Half of the misguided Liberal people in this country will continue to vote for Liberals no matter how much pain, suffering, and abuse is heaped upon them. And these same Liberal voters will bitch about what the Liberal politicians are doing.

You can't role around naked in a briar patch and then whine about having thorns in your ass.

It makes me want to bash my head against a wall.

 

[ShoreShooter]

Make the contacts ...

As individuals we have much more flexibility than as an organisation -- so do not assume that because MSI feels the need to stay single issue that thr individuals involved will. I can prove that is not the case.

Keep us informed.

I heard of some of the legal issue in the Farm area --I have attended community meetings in parkton and parts of ciel county but I am only one guy .. been west and north mostly -- south and the shore not so much..

I can assure you my goal is to raise a little hell every place I can..

Would love to help out if I can...

keep us informed ...

What's our bargaining chip?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqw0Gz9GahM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csv1wXOr5tY

 

[ShoreShooter]

Not to bust balls, but we have crazy tax laws and crazy gun laws because crazy people voted for crazy politicians so they could create crazy laws.

It's a horrible, vicious circle that I'm afraid will never end.

Like Justice John Roberts said: The people get what the people vote for.

That's why we have been saddled with Obamacare. A truely "Shovel Ready" program if I ever saw one.

Half of the misguided people in this country will continue to vote for Liberals no matter how much pain, suffering, and abuse is heaped upon them.

You can't role around naked in a briar patch and then whine about having thorns in your ass.

It makes me want to bash my head against a wall.

Our biggest industry is government. And people who are paid by that, directly or indirectly, vote for more of it.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Our biggest industry is government. And people who are paid by that, directly or indirectly, vote for more of it.

Very true.

 

[Brooklyn]

What's our bargaining chip?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqw0Gz9GahM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csv1wXOr5tY

First we listen. When I go as an outsider which I am I mosly listen..

Out of character for me prehaps but essential..

Listen and understand first...

 

[Brooklyn]

Not to bust balls, but we have crazy tax laws and crazy gun laws because crazy people voted for crazy politicians so they could create crazy laws.

It's a horrible, vicious circle that I'm afraid will never end.

Like Justice John Roberts said: The people get what the people vote for.

That's why we have been saddled with Obamacare. A truely "Shovel Ready" program if I ever saw one.

Half of the misguided Liberal people in this country will continue to vote for Liberals no matter how much pain, suffering, and abuse is heaped upon them. And these same Liberal voters will bitch about what the Liberal politicians are doing.

You can't role around naked in a briar patch and then whine about having thorns in your ass.

It makes me want to bash my head against a wall.

Well it would make me not want to hear a word you say..

Stop talking about liberals and start talking with them.

First let them talk more than you. Then ask questions. Takes a bout. 5min before they are questioning their own positions...

But you must listen.. you can not lecture -- no one hears a lecture..

Or just give up. Lectures do not work. Period.

 

[Brooklyn]

"Not circles I travel in, but it would be interesting to know more about this."

I want to respect your request, but this is a tough one. To make sense of it there are so many pieces to the backstory it would take a novel to do it justice, and no one man will get it just right. I will take a stab at it BRIEFLY that is so overly simplified I cannot do it justice, but here goes ...

A piece of the story is ag in general, poultry perhaps more narrowly but far from exclusively. A piece of the story is in the history of the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, but is far more broad to include a spiderweb of other environmental groups like the River Keepers organized and funded by the Kennedy family. A piece of it is just plain old local politics, of rewarding your friends and punishing your enemies. Lots more too.

The economy of the Shore is heavy in agriculture, apart from tourism in a few spots like Ocean City, and tiny other bits in places like St. Michaels, Easton, and far less so in Chestertown. Other industry is sparse and generally lacking in any concentration of type. Most counties have their government and schools as the largest employer, or among the top.

Back in the day, vegetable farming was big, in crops like tomatoes, cantalopes, cucumbers, and so forth. Every small town had a cannery. That died abruptly in about the mid-1960's when MD passed some laws dealing with migrant labor needed to harvest the crops. Everyone switched to grain that is purely mechanized, right at a time when the machines improved dramatically.

Part of the reason was the rise of poultry on the Shore. Perdue is what many point to, but it was much more broad than that. Perdue has survived where others have not, and some have simply sold out and are other brand names like Tyson. Back when they were growing fast, the Shore was an exporter of the new high supply of grain, and poultry could buy its raw materials locally at a discount due to low shipping cost. Today, by the way, the Shore is a net importer of grain, because poultry is that big and that important to the economy. I won't stray into the reasons why the Shore is a good place for poultry, apart from the local government challenges.

The 1960's also spawned a lot of environment hippies, who grew up to make a living out of their marches. The Chesapeake Bay Foundation was one among many. In my view, most of these began for the right reasons with a just cause, but strayed from the path to become more self-serving money making machines than causes with pure motives. It is much like labor unions which were very much needed in the 1930's to curb clear abuses, but outlived their mission and usefulness and survive to line some pockets.

The bay foundation and other groups would be funny if it were not so sad. Each year they issue new reports that say progress has been made ... in the form of some new regulation and tax ... but the water quality of the Bay is worse. The more they do, the worse it seems to get. But they receive a lot of government funding, drive a lot of votes, and make a lot of political donations. It is an unholy alliance with the political class.

But not just with the political class. They are after the money. MANY watermen would tell you the Bay was severely damaged by silt that smothered the Bay when the Conowingo dam gates were fully opened in Hurricane Agnes a few decades ago. There are a lot of issues about the impact of that dam. This is one of the largest hydro electricity plants in the US, owned by Excelon power in Philly. So why is it the Chesapeake Bay Foundation has been opposed to any and all action to deal with dam issues, until some very tepid involvement only very recently. Not only were they hands off on this, they have been very actively trying to get the State to leave it alone. When that story is told many suspect it will be a simple "follow the money" story.

Instead, all eyes have focused on fertilizer and nutrient issues, and exclusively on sources from the Shore and very specifically not from the western shore. The Shore has never been a part of the urban MD machine. The Shore opposes its tax money being spent on all of the constant subsidies to Baltimore and elsewhere. Which the bay foundation exploits by using the Shore as its whipping boy as it seeks to do "something" in order to justify its existence.

When the reality is, the poundage of raw nutrients hitting the Bay from the regular occurrence of accidents in Essex and elsewhere dwarf the impact of ag runoff. Silt from Conowingo issues dwarf any issues from storm water management on the western shore that the rain tax is taxing. Follow the money, and you see the rain tax is supposed to be funneled into environmental spending via organizations like the bay foundation. Follow the money on Conowingo and the theory is the money comes from protecting Conowingo. You don't like the rain tax? The Chesapeake Bay Foundation is going to wind up with a chunk of it, but also expect that Baltimore will wind up with a chunk of it too.

So where that leaves things is that Bay issues and ag issues are intertwined with punishing the Shore, and in rewarding environmental groups who rally 95 corridor votes and supply donations, laundered through environmental activism, from your tax dollars. Environmentalists need to "do something" to justify their existence, so yesterday's initiative is never enough. The western shore has only seen the slightest taste of this in the rain tax that pales in comparison to what the Shore has seen for decades, and in even daring to touch the western shore the over-reach has occurred. Due to greed, because having milked the Shore for everything it's worth they now have tried to dip into other pockets for small pennies and it is blowing up.

One can be for labor and hate unions. One can be for the Bay and be opposed to the environmentalists. One can be for equality and improved race relations and be opposed to shakedown artists like Jesse. It really is pretty similar.

These are all bigger, broader, and laden with more money and votes than 2A could ever hope to be. That game is much bigger, much more professional and much better funded than the 2A issue is, by a country mile. The channel of money from elsewhere in the State into Baltimore and PG is a bigger and deeper issue going back many decades, and dwarfs us. But it is a big part of the landscape of our fight. If 2A is a pawn issue in the bigger games, we need to understand that, and why it isn't necessarily about 2A or constitutional matters. If we are playing defense using approaches and arguments no one cares about, it will all continue to fall on deaf ears. I have no ideas, or you would have heard them, but we'll get further if we as a pawn can be played by them in support of something bigger they want, than we will as minor roadkill on their highway to other places.

I am new to this area. Find me a way to meet these folks and I will listen and do what I can. I am from NY I know what can happen to a AG economy. I do not want to see that happen again.

I love the fact that I can take a country drive anytime I want.

I will help to preserve that if in can. I grew up in a world of steel and concrete -- I prefer pasture and stream. ..

 

[ShoreShooter]

First we listen. When I go as an outsider which I am I mosly listen..

Out of character for me prehaps but essential..

Listen and understand first...

I am headed in a different direction with this.

Make a "deal deal". Sit down with the enemy. Find out what they want. Empathize and find a way to get them what they want, and help them get it in a way they can take credit for it, be a hero to their people, and win elections and donations.

Open a collaborative discussion with folks in Baltimore City. I don't know the power players personally, but guys like Frank Conaway come to mind. Learn about who he is and what he is about before the first meeting so the likelihood of an inadvertent misstep does not occur out of the gate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_M._Conaway,_Jr.

Notice his relations on the right side of the screen. You won't be speaking to one man.

He wants to see his people stop killing each other with guns. We understand guns. Look for ways he can get what he wants, in ways we get what we want. We can probably solve his problem better than he can. In helping him perhaps we can help ourselves. Small pieces of common ground can be grown into trust. Small steps can achieve bigger goals. Focus on his needs, because he won't give a rats rear end about ours.

We listened to the plight of Baltimore during the last fight. We are here to help.

What he does not want is to see his people spend their lives in jail. Go in with a mission to focus on larger sentences for use of a gun and it will be a short conversation. That piece probably doomed us in the last fight.

 

[ShoreShooter]

Well it would make me not want to hear a word you say..

Stop talking about liberals and start talking with them.

First let them talk more than you. Then ask questions. Takes a bout. 5min before they are questioning their own positions...

But you must listen.. you can not lecture -- no one hears a lecture..

Or just give up. Lectures do not work. Period.

THIS

 

[ShoreShooter]

By the way, the Shore does not want to see Baltimore thugs get extended time either.

Why?

Because MD practices a "catch and release" program. They are caught in Baltimore, spend time in jail south of Princess Anne / north of Pokomoke, then released outside that gate where they go to Salisbury and other nearby towns to set up shop.

They don't even get a free bus ticket back home to Baltimore.