in these tough times in Baltimore

[smokering]

The bottom line is that we are not demanding instant gratification. We have been patient for a very long time. Every time we're patient our rights are infringed upon even further. We were patient for years and had to endure a 20 round magazine limit, we were patient some more and ended up with a commission that has to approve what pistols we can buy, then we were patient yet again and we now have a 10 round magazine limit, an onerous handgun qualification license, as well as a ban of the most common rifles that are still available throughout the rest of the country. What exactly are we being patient for? If we're patient long enough, the second amendment will be repealed.

You see what happened in Baltimore, you feel strong enough I hear social media and the word purge works. Hell most teenagers will show up without even knowing what they are going for.

 

[Jim12]

At least three posts here advocate fingerprint-based background checks as a proposed panacea to obtain their constitutional rights.

Submitting yourself to fingerprinting in order to exercise a constitutional right is, in and of itself, a violation of one's rights. Some find it utterly offensive and humiliating.

What do those of you who propose it think the ACLU, NAACP, Dems, Justice Department, and Obama would say if someone suggested that everyone should submit to fingerprinting in order to vote? They would organize protests in the streets of Baltimore.

 

[danb]

At least three posts here advocate fingerprint-based background checks as a proposed panacea to obtain their constitutional rights.

Submitting yourself to fingerprinting in order to exercise a constitutional right is, in and of itself, a violation of one's rights. Some find it utterly offensive and humiliating.

What do those of you who propose it think the ACLU, NAACP, Dems, Justice Department, and Obama would say if someone suggested that everyone should submit to fingerprinting in order to vote? They would organize protests in the streets of Baltimore.

If you think we are getting constitutional carry in this state anytime soon, please pass what your smoking. ONLY requiring a fingerprint based check for CCW would be a big step forward.

 

[44man]

At least three posts here advocate fingerprint-based background checks as a proposed panacea to obtain their constitutional rights.

Submitting yourself to fingerprinting in order to exercise a constitutional right is, in and of itself, a violation of one's rights. Some find it utterly offensive and humiliating.

What do those of you who propose it think the ACLU, NAACP, Dems, Justice Department, and Obama would say if someone suggested that everyone should submit to fingerprinting in order to vote? They would organize protests in the streets of Baltimore.

well I have a fla and va non resident permit and had to provide finger prints. I don't see the problem. no matter what I don't thin constitutional carry will ever happen in md. but if they make it as simple as fla and va I would be really happy with that.

 

[Rack&Roll]

Nobody trusts the po-po. Cops charged. Police might stand down... who can you trust to protect you?


The Hogan administration should offer the chance for anyone who can pass a fingerprint based background check to carry a weapon. You know, like in America.

Just saying. There are logistical challenges, but is it time yet?

It sure is a state of emergency. ...

Here is the thread I started awhile back with the same question on Maryland LEO willingness to give wide latitude to law-abiding citizens carrying during an immediate crisis:


http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=160556&highlight=Isis+attacks

 

[Muleskinner]

Nobody trusts the po-po. Cops charged. Police might stand down... who can you trust to protect you?...

The police have no moral or legal obligation to protect anyone...The Supreme Court has ruled on this more than once. That is what makes not allowing concealed carry so immoral...We aren't allowed to carry to defend ourselves, the police don't have to protect us so who is? Marylanders are victims on so many levels...

 

[Muleskinner]

If you think we are getting constitutional carry in this state anytime soon, please pass what your smoking. ONLY requiring a fingerprint based check for CCW would be a big step forward.

HA if you think we are getting the G&S requirements lowered or any form of "shall issue" passed in our lifetime in Md you're on crack...let alone being able to actually exercise our 2A RIGHTS....

 

[danb]

HA if you think we are getting the G&S requirements lowered or any form of "shall issue" passed in our lifetime in Md you're on crack...let alone being able to actually exercise our 2A RIGHTS....

Then I am on crack. I am cautiously optimistic G&S will be rolled back within a few years.

 

[Muleskinner]

Then I am on crack. I am cautiously optimistic G&S will be rolled back within a few years.

I'm curious...besides the fact that we currently have republican governor what evidence do you have tho support your optimism? The legislature's makeup will not change until 2018 so chances are very good that what happened to the pro 2a bills that were introduced this year will happen again the next 3 sessions...The legislature will never pass a bill defining G&S because if it passes that opens it up to a petition, and if a governor were to sign it into law that opens it up to being challenged in the courts. Hogan COULD have MSP lower the standard but you can bet Frosh would challenge that and keep the case open long enough that next to no SELF DEFENSE permits would be issued...In my view there is no reason for any optimism. The legislature has the deck stacked against any further review of any anti 2A laws they have passed and even the HQL challenge isn't getting much traction...Just my opinion but we shall see...I will meet you back on this post in 3 years....let's see who's right...I truly hope I am wrong...but I'm a realist...history is NOT on our side..

 

[BeoBill]

I'm curious...besides the fact that we currently have republican governor what evidence do you have tho support your optimism? The legislature's makeup will not change until 2018 so chances are very good that what happened to the pro 2a bills that were introduced this year will happen again the next 3 sessions...The legislature will never pass a bill defining G&S because if it passes that opens it up to a petition, and if a governor were to sign it into law that opens it up to being challenged in the courts. Hogan COULD have MSP lower the standard but you can bet Frosh would challenge that and keep the case open long enough that next to no SELF DEFENSE permits would be issued...In my view there is no reason for any optimism. The legislature has the deck stacked against any further review of any anti 2A laws they have passed and even the HQL challenge isn't getting much traction...Just my opinion but we shall see...I will meet you back on this post in 3 years....let's see who's right...I truly hope I am wrong...but I'm a realist...history is NOT on our side..

Anybody from Illinois? Any of you see a LOT of similarities in the laws? Even with Chicago? I still have my old Illinois HQL somewhere from when I was stationed there. Retarded. I'm TIRED of being patient!

 

[danb]

I'm curious...besides the fact that we currently have republican governor what evidence do you have tho support your optimism? The legislature's makeup will not change until 2018 so chances are very good that what happened to the pro 2a bills that were introduced this year will happen again the next 3 sessions...The legislature will never pass a bill defining G&S because if it passes that opens it up to a petition, and if a governor were to sign it into law that opens it up to being challenged in the courts. Hogan COULD have MSP lower the standard but you can bet Frosh would challenge that and keep the case open long enough that next to no SELF DEFENSE permits would be issued...In my view there is no reason for any optimism. The legislature has the deck stacked against any further review of any anti 2A laws they have passed and even the HQL challenge isn't getting much traction...Just my opinion but we shall see...I will meet you back on this post in 3 years....let's see who's right...I truly hope I am wrong...but I'm a realist...history is NOT on our side..

Maryland is now in the super-minority of states that are not shall issue. Even if Hogan does not act, it could be forced on Maryland by a court case (ala Peruta), by national reciprocity, by what states nearby do, by other events. Over the next 3 years, I like those odds.

 

[e40bib]

In light of the current situation, do you suppose the police may look the other way when they encounter an otherwise decent citizen who happens to have a firearm in his possession without a permit?

Ummm, Nooooo!

 

[MikeTF]

The bottom line is that we are not demanding instant gratification. We have been patient for a very long time. Every time we're patient our rights are infringed upon even further. We were patient for years and had to endure a 20 round magazine limit, we were patient some more and ended up with a commission that has to approve what pistols we can buy, then we were patient yet again and we now have a 10 round magazine limit, an onerous handgun qualification license, as well as a ban of the most common rifles that are still available throughout the rest of the country. What exactly are we being patient for? If we're patient long enough, the second amendment will be repealed.

After living in MD for 40 years, I lost my patience and moved.

 

[danb]

Sometimes I think Maryland has been without CC so long that they couldn't handle it if it WAS passed. Not people like us, but people like those in the ghetto who are tired of being stepped on by thugs that the revolving-door system protects and who would go to their guns in inappropriate situations out of utter frustration and despair.

There would be a lot of those at first...then they would taper off, of course, as people grew up and learned to be responsible with their civil rights again. But the politicians wouldn't allow that time to pass...they would point to those incidents as they happened and repeal the CC policy/laws before the citizens had a chance to mature. You know, "for the children".

As far as not trusting the "po-po"...that's been going on for a while. The days of the "neighborhood beat cop" are out the window. No more, "good morning, Mrs. Johnson...how are the kids?" "Oh hi Officer Steve...not bad, you have a good day!"

The crime culture that is pervasive in cities like Baltimore has the cops acting like animals to fight the animals. People talk about the recent "war on cops", but in places like Mobtown, the cops and the hoodlums have been at "war" for a while now.

The "communities" can't decide what's worse...to have to constantly be on their guard and walk on eggshells to not get mistaken for crooks and get harassed/arrested/roughed up by cops for petty sh!t, or to have to dodge crossfire from gang warfare and try to keep their kids away from drugs and thugs.

I think it will be an extreme culture shock. I am not sure if it will be a bigger culture shock for the police or the residents, but I tend to think the police. But if Chicago can handle it, so can Baltimore.

Sometimes when you are standing over a pool you just have to dive in. One can analyze it to the point of paralysis.

 

[Indiana Jones]

I feel worse for those who woke up after Monday's riots and wanted to buy a gun for self-defense and were denied their rights. Handgun sales: now weeks of waiting, and hundreds of dollars to qualify just to have the OPTION to purchase one.

MD laws: keeping citizens safer, one denial at a time. It's for your own good. Move along, nothing to see here.

When it's easier and cheaper to buy a handgun on the street, that's what law-abiding people will do out of necessity. I wonder how many gang-bangers made a profit selling illegal handguns to otherwise honest citizens?

I highly doubt your last part is true. I would bet money that there was not one instance of an honest citizen seeking out a "gang banger" to buy a gun. I would love to hear that conversation. I imagine it would go like It's Always Sunny when Dennis tries to by an AR from that gang banger under the bridge....not well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[danb]

I highly doubt your last part is true. I would bet money that there was not one instance of an honest citizen seeking out a "gang banger" to buy a gun. I would love to hear that conversation. I imagine it would go like It's Always Sunny when Dennis tries to by an AR from that gang banger under the bridge....not well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anecdotally, I've seen a lot of shotguns being purchased. I can't wait for the April and May background check data to come out.

 

[danb]

Oh, I agree. But no politician wants to be the one to "take the plunge" and acquire negative political capital over 2 or 3 "incidents" that will occur during the city's "growing pains".

Hogan isn't dragging his feet on "G&S" for no reason. He has to think about HIS future too.

Unfortunately, regardless of what "side" they are on, a career politician is a career politician. They are not motivated to make their community/state/country a better place, they are motivated to stay in office so they don't have to come back to the real world.

There are more than political considerations. There are financial and staffing repercussions from assigning 10 MSP officers and 44 background check clerks to investigate law abiding citizens. The legislature did not give him the 100 new MSP positions he requested. I would also expect a change in policy to result in a lot of, er, retirements. Merely waving a wand (email) to change policy without the staffing could result in astronomical wait times, which would be really no change at all, and make people even more ticked off. He still has not decided what to do about the 200 million in the budget that they bickered over.

If he takes the plunge without the right resources in place, he will just make everyone unhappy.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Criminal court is the one finds that someone has done something wrong, not a States Attorney. They are the ones who on a whim let off child molesters and people who burn an entire city. These charges are politically motivated as is the office of SA. No laws have been found to have been broken at this point. I understand that the media has already convicted these 6 people. But courts (IMHO) will find things differently, as they have in almost every other police related media whoring event of the last few years.

As I have said in other threads, policy is not law. Policy is an HR term.

No one has a problem with SAs when they work with police. No one has a problem when they go through Grand Juries and the circus that comes with that. No one has a problem with SAs when they're on the side of police, which they typically are.

Only now, when the police don't get a favorable outcome do people get all pissy.

I've said for years that an outside, neutral, third party person needs to be involve din these cases. Too many times police have gotten off, criminals have gotten off, or innocent people get locked up because of the special relationship between the SA and their local police force.

 

[Muleskinner]

I highly doubt your last part is true. I would bet money that there was not one instance of an honest citizen seeking out a "gang banger" to buy a gun. I would love to hear that conversation. I imagine it would go like It's Always Sunny when Dennis tries to by an AR from that gang banger under the bridge....not well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You would lose your bet....that's all i've got to say about that....gang bangers are not the only ones dealing in what this state calls "illegal" guns...There are still plenty of cash and carry deals...especially with all of this unrest. Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission....especially when the law clearly states that permission is not required...

 

[Muleskinner]

Hogan isn't dragging his feet on "G&S" for no reason. He has to think about HIS future too.

This is the part that pisses me off....If this is true and he is weighing his political future over the safety and security of the people he doesn't deserve to be in office. Integrity sometimes means doing what is just despite the consequences to one's self. You cannot justify one defenseless victim over a political career....period...