Does a frame require an HQL?

[mdram]

Frame or receiver alone does not need an HQL. Whether or not it needs to go on regulated paperwork depends on the frame, according to MSP. This includes stripped, factory glock frames.

is this what they are allowing, or did they issue a notice?
any chance of link?

 

[shiner500]

is this what they are allowing, or did they issue a notice?
any chance of link?

I'm curios about this too. The whole thing just seems a little risky

 

[ken792]

is this what they are allowing, or did they issue a notice?
any chance of link?

If there is no law against it, then it's legal. I don't see how a handgun frame is different from any other receiver.

 

[mdram]

If there is no law against it, then it's legal. I don't see how a handgun frame is different from any other receiver.

oh i agree, but the msp is fickle

 

[ken792]

oh i agree, but the msp is fickle

Yeah, they get to interpret the laws. Can't blame an FFL for being cautious and not wanting to be the first one to test it out.

 

[mdram]

Yeah, they get to interpret the laws. Can't blame an FFL for being cautious and not wanting to be the first one to test it out.

thats why i was wondering if they issued a notice or not

 

[730dc]

any more info on this? would like to get a 1911 frame to build but dont have hql at this point

 

[Gunslinger669]

If there is no law against it, then it's legal. I don't see how a handgun frame is different from any other receiver.

From Maryland code section 5-1

(h) Firearm.-

(1) "Firearm" means:

(i) a weapon that expels, is designed to expel, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; or

(ii) the frame or receiver of such a weapon.

..…

So, a "regulated" firearm requires an HQL. So, a pistol frame, whose purpose is to become a pistol, is a regulated firearm in Md. and requires an HQL. Seems pretty simple. Get the HQL. Seems to be less trouble, unless there's a problem being able to get one.....

 

[ken792]

There is a problem with me getting a HQL. I refuse to do it as a matter of principle. I'm moving to VA real soon anyway (already have the signed lease). It would just be great if my friends stuck in MD could get Glock frames without an HQL.

A Glock frames is no more intended to become a regulated firearm than any other frame or receiver since it can be built into a nonregulated long gun. A frame may meet MD's definition of a "firearm," but does it meet the statutory definition of a regulated firearm (I haven't read the law, just asking)?

 

[pilotguy299]

From Maryland code section 5-1

(h) Firearm.-

(1) "Firearm" means:

(i) a weapon that expels, is designed to expel, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; or

(ii) the frame or receiver of such a weapon.

..…

So, a "regulated" firearm requires an HQL. So, a pistol frame, whose purpose is to become a pistol, is a regulated firearm in Md. and requires an HQL. Seems pretty simple. Get the HQL. Seems to be less trouble, unless there's a problem being able to get one.....

That section doesn't say that frame = handgun. It says that a frame = firearm.

in §5–101:
(r) “Regulated firearm” means:
(1) a handgun; or
...

but in §5–101:
(n) (1) “Handgun” means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(2) “Handgun” includes signal, starter, and blank pistols.

A frame does not have a barrel length, and a frame is not specifically called out as a handgun in §5–101. ATF classifies frames a firearm, not specifically as a handgun.

So it could be argued that a frame is not regulated, as Maryland doesn't specifically say it is a handgun.

 

[Gunslinger669]

There is a problem with me getting a HQL. I refuse to do it as a matter of principle. I'm moving to VA real soon anyway (already have the signed lease). It would just be great if my friends stuck in MD could get Glock frames without an HQL. A Glock frames is no more intended to become a regulated firearm than any other frame or receiver since it can be built into a nonregulated long gun. A frame may meet MD's definition of a "firearm," but does it meet the statutory definition of a regulated firearm (I haven't read the law, just asking)?

I absolutely respect your choice and in my heart of hearts agree with you. However, I collect, buy and shoot constantly and I choose to live in Maryland, so I'm stuck with it- and while it may be worth the fight to challenge the definitions and intent of the laws in this state on principle for the good of all, it's only good if the purpose is to achieve positive change, for all.

Trying to "get around" or "sneak one past" serves no one and in fact can do more damage.

 

[zoostation]

I absolutely respect your choice and in my heart of hearts agree with you. However, I collect, buy and shoot constantly and I choose to live in Maryland, so I'm stuck with it- and while it may be worth the fight to challenge the definitions and intent of the laws in this state on principle for the good of all, it's only good if the purpose is to achieve positive change, for all.

Trying to "get around" or "sneak one past" serves no one and in fact can do more damage.

You may want to read the above post from a dealer and attorney who has stated that even MSP has said it is legal to do stripped frames without an HQL. No need to sneak around anything.

Seems pretty simple. Get the HQL. Seems to be less trouble, unless there's a problem being able to get one.....

Nice insinuation. Ken has been an active and responsible member of this forum for a long time, and I don't think anyone here doubts his ability to get an HQL if he so chooses. This is not the way to make friends here on your third post just fyi.

 

[NateIU10]

There is a problem with me getting a HQL. I refuse to do it as a matter of principle. I'm moving to VA real soon anyway (already have the signed lease). It would just be great if my friends stuck in MD could get Glock frames without an HQL.

A Glock frames is no more intended to become a regulated firearm than any other frame or receiver since it can be built into a nonregulated long gun. A frame may meet MD's definition of a "firearm," but does it meet the statutory definition of a regulated firearm (I haven't read the law, just asking)?

We will be receiving an official response at some point from MSP. They said last week that, "your question pertaining to the lower receiver of a handgun is still being reviewed and an answer will be completed shortly." Hopefully they come out correct on this one, because lawsuits keep getting more and more expensive.

 

[zoostation]

We will be receiving an official response at some point from MSP. They said last week that, "your question pertaining to the lower receiver of a handgun is still being reviewed and an answer will be completed shortly." Hopefully they come out correct on this one, because lawsuits keep getting more and more expensive.

It's okay, their boss is now a gun friendly conservative who is going to make sure they do the right thing......eventually......or so I keep telling myself.........

 

[pilotguy299]

We will be receiving an official response at some point from MSP. They said last week that, "your question pertaining to the lower receiver of a handgun is still being reviewed and an answer will be completed shortly." Hopefully they come out correct on this one, because lawsuits keep getting more and more expensive.

The words they use are part of the problem.

It is not the lower receiver of a handgun. It is a frame that can be built in to a handgun, a rifle, a short-barreled rifle, or "any other weapon". Until something is added to it, it is simply a firearm.

Using the incorrect words/definitions helps them justify an incorrect opinion.

 

[NateIU10]

The words they use are part of the problem.

It is not the lower receiver of a handgun. It is a frame that can be built in to a handgun, a rifle, a short-barreled rifle, or "any other weapon". Until something is added to it, it is simply a firearm.

Using the incorrect words/definitions helps them justify an incorrect opinion.

Believe me, they have a very thorough explaination of the whole thing.

 

[pilotguy299]

Believe me, they have a very thorough explanation of the whole thing.

I am sure they do. I am also sure that thorough is not the same as accurate or legally correct! lol

 

[NateIU10]

It's okay, their boss is now a gun friendly conservative who is going to make sure they do the right thing......eventually......or so I keep telling myself.........

Unfortunately things have gotten exponentially worse with LD recently, IMO.

 

[pilotguy299]

Unfortunately things have gotten exponentially worse with LD recently, IMO.

They are probably confused about the change after years of mind-washing... lol

 

[platoonDaddy]

At the range this week met a LEO who has a SIG P320, he said only the trigger etc is serialized and therefore requires a FFL. All of the frames were shipped directly to him.

Came home and did a google on his comments and located the following:


While some firearms can arguably be called modular (a caliber change kit or interchangeable backstraps perhaps?) nothing really comes close to the P320 in its ability to change almost every major feature of the gun. The pistol disassembles in just a few seconds into its constituent parts, and the entire metal chassis of the gun — the serialized part that is technically the “firearm” in the eyes of the ATF — slides completely free of the frame. That chassis is also designed to fit exactly into the existing grips for the P250, meaning that there are already aftermarket parts available that will fit the 320.

In case you haven’t figured out exactly how big a deal this is, let me give you some examples.

Instead of needing to buy a completely different firearm for your big-handed self and your small-handed girlfriend, now you only need to buy a new smaller frame for her at a cost of about $50.


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/05/foghorn/gun-review-sig-sauer-p320/