Concealed Carry Safety

[redeemed.man]

"...The only thing you lose...".

Time for a dynamic training class. Not the typical "CCW Class" in which one simply assumes the Isosceles Stance of Death in front of paper targets and studies law, but a real defensive training class that includes forceful grapples and near-full speed exercises. A class in which simulated attacks are carried out and countered (or not) will clear up this foolishness for the many here who cannot seem to fathom the potential speed and violence of action. Training will vividly demonstrate the value of split seconds and the undeniable idiocy of an empty gun for defensive CCW.

Our citizen CCW applications do not resemble military or police applications. It is a different matter entirely. As citizens, we are not brought into an active situation with time to ramp up our cautionary measures and prepare. We are not called to action on someone else's behalf.

We must REACT to something that is already conceived, already in motion against us. Legally and practically speaking, even if we feel apprehensive, we cannot react unless/until we are directly threatened. Clearly, if the attacker is with a few feet or yards and already in motion, you simply will not prevail with an empty firearm.

 

[Hit and Run]

Yes, but only in States that accept the Utah permit.

You were either taught wrong or more than likely that if you do not have a permit that open carry is allowed and the gun must be statutorily unloaded. This means that you can have a loaded magazine but the chamber must be empty and that activating the mechanism once wohld not fire the gun.

Utah Concealed Firearm Permit holder...and you are verifying what my research concludes...either taught wrong or I misunderstood instructor. I have Florida and Maine non-resident permits as well....

Former maine resident and had permit. When I carried there I always had a chambered round, a good holster that covered trigger and I got to practice often.

 

[TxAggie]

I am more than qualified in this so I will be happy to entertain your question.

No I can't because I don't train with them as a self defense reaction carry like I do from my belt holster. I am not an advocate of these as a replacement for a quick draw system to defend your life with. To me, these are made for two different purposes and you cannot compare the both ways to carry. It's apple and oranges.



Now, that out of the way, let's break this down into 2 categories.



1. Carrying a weapon ON you and 2. carrying a weapon WITH you.



I sometimes use these type things to carry a pistol WITH me. I have no illusions that carrying a pistol in one of these is ideal in a self defense reaction situation. I will leave a pistol unchambered, in a suede sleeve type holster and put it inside a bag, any bag actually, that I carry other things in when I go someplace I am just sitting, i.e... Starbucks in the morning on my day off.



It's better to have something with you than to have nothing at all. You cannot tell me that this is something dangerous to do. If a novice wanted to have a pistol with them this way, I say why not? Where's the hurt reaching into a bag, grabbing it and making it hot if you have to present it?



People who carry 5,6, 7 days a week, 8 - 12 hours a day sometimes for work need to decompress out of condition yellow and just relax. Maybe you don't understand that, I don't know. But many who do, do.



When I carry on me, it is in a holster, hot and on my belt (or some other scenario dependent method). This is how I train and how I carry ON me.



Again.... On and WITH are 2 different things altogether.



I have a wealth of knowledge and can teach a hell of a concealment methods portion of a class if you need any help

Excellent points!

I, for one, would be very interested in learning more from your experience. No such thing as too much knowledge.

 

[TxAggie]

"...The only thing you lose...".



Time for a dynamic training class. Not the typical "CCW Class" in which one simply assumes the Isosceles Stance of Death in front of paper targets and studies law, but a real defensive training class that includes forceful grapples and near-full speed exercises. A class in which simulated attacks are carried out and countered (or not) will clear up this foolishness for the many here who cannot seem to fathom the potential speed and violence of action. Training will vividly demonstrate the value of split seconds and the undeniable idiocy of an empty gun for defensive CCW.



Our citizen CCW applications do not resemble military or police applications. It is a different matter entirely. As citizens, we are not brought into an active situation with time to ramp up our cautionary measures and prepare. We are not called to action on someone else's behalf.



We must REACT to something that is already conceived, already in motion against us. Legally and practically speaking, even if we feel apprehensive, we cannot react unless/until we are directly threatened. Clearly, if the attacker is with a few feet or yards and already in motion, you simply will not prevail with an empty firearm.

Yes!!!

 

[ProShooter]

So, if I have a UTAH permit can I legally carry with a chambered round? The course I took said no, but reading up what I can find it is ambiguous....

LOL. I'd love to know who taught that!

 

[Blaster229]

LOL. I'd love to know who taught that!

This sounds like someone had confused an old CCW requirement from California?? Stating it cannot be carried hot?
But wow. Crazy.

 

[RoadDawg]

Eh not really.
So, not a fan of concealment backpacks, fanny packs, maxpedition versi packs, 5.11 bags, women's holster purses and a whole industry that revolves around those items?

If you reread what I said, you'll find that your question was answered. If it is not secured on your body... It is NOT secure. I don't GAD how many purses they turn into holster carry. Purses get snatch all of the time. I know because I took enough reports and signed enough reports for that crime. And it was always the same thing... thief runs by, snatches bag and keeps on truckin'. Goodbye to purse/backpack AND contents. If your pistol is in your purse, it is gone too. Fanny packs, belt bags and other such bags secured on you is a different thing.

 

[redeemed.man]

This sounds like someone had confused an old CCW requirement from California?? Stating it cannot be carried hot?
But wow. Crazy.

Definitely Utah law confusion. In the Utah CFP class all law discussions are centered around Utah. The area of confusion is that if you are unlicensed in Utah you can only open carry and it must be without a round in the chamber. If you are licensed in Utah you can carry chamber loaded open or concealed, your choice.

 

[Blaster229]

If you reread what I said, you'll find that your question was answered. If it is not secured on your body... It is NOT secure. I don't GAD how many purses they turn into holster carry. Purses get snatch all of the time. I know because I took enough reports and signed enough reports for that crime. And it was always the same thing... thief runs by, snatches bag and keeps on truckin'. Goodbye to purse/backpack AND contents. If your pistol is in your purse, it is gone too. Fanny packs, belt bags and other such bags secured on you is a different thing.

I answered no question really. It's more rhetorical.
Try not over analyzing.
Just saying your not a fan of really anything that isn't your "thing".
There are options out there that many people take advantage of and to you they are all wrong.

 

[Minuteman]

Nothing is really 'secure', these idiosyncrasy's about how and where to carry are largely rhetorical. There are some good lessons and ideas here, but again, nothing is absolute.

What works for one person, may not work for another; as long as we are talking about normal law-abiding/responsible citizens, and no one is placed in jeopardy, i.e. they are following the basic principles of safety, I'm not too worried. There are plenty of less experienced folks 'instructing' with different interpretations of what's right or wrong, that much of it can be glossed over. I get what Blaster is saying.

Notice who posted this thread, an obviously less experienced person asking a fairly basic, but open ended question. I gave him the right level of response and stayed out of getting into a pissing contest, as I know most of you personally and know we are all on the same sheet of music, but singing different keys.

 

[thai]

I think you missed my point. I want your crystal ball as in being able to tell what situation is so safe that no bad guy could enter into the equation and wreak havoc on my life. The odds may be against it but that doesn't mean it cannot happen. I don't leave home unarmed unless I am legally required not to be (as in a rare trip to DC).

You are missing Mooseman's point. He is saying if you carry, you SHOULD have a cartridge in battery. Otherwise don't carry.

 

[redeemed.man]

You are missing Mooseman's point. He is saying if you carry, you SHOULD have a cartridge in battery. Otherwise don't carry.

We clarified that already. Thanks

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

[RoadDawg]

I answered no question really. It's more rhetorical.
Try not over analyzing.
Just saying your not a fan of really anything that isn't your "thing".
There are options out there that many people take advantage of and to you they are all wrong.

What I am not a fan of is the potential for someone with CCW to have to watch as their bag runs away with a thief... with their firearm IN it.

And how many things do you agree with in your posts, that you would not agree with in your daily life? If I don't think it is safe... YES I will say so. AND?

 

[ProShooter]

"...The only thing you lose...".

Time for a dynamic training class. Not the typical "CCW Class" in which one simply assumes the Isosceles Stance of Death in front of paper targets and studies law, but a real defensive training class that includes forceful grapples and near-full speed exercises. A class in which simulated attacks are carried out and countered (or not) will clear up this foolishness for the many here who cannot seem to fathom the potential speed and violence of action. Training will vividly demonstrate the value of split seconds and the undeniable idiocy of an empty gun for defensive CCW.

Our citizen CCW applications do not resemble military or police applications. It is a different matter entirely. As citizens, we are not brought into an active situation with time to ramp up our cautionary measures and prepare. We are not called to action on someone else's behalf.

We must REACT to something that is already conceived, already in motion against us. Legally and practically speaking, even if we feel apprehensive, we cannot react unless/until we are directly threatened. Clearly, if the attacker is with a few feet or yards and already in motion, you simply will not prevail with an empty firearm.

Very well said!

 

[traveller]

If you dont trust the internal safeties of your carry gun enough to carry with a round in the chamber, it is probably time to go shopping for a better one.

 

[TxAggie]

If you dont trust the internal safeties of your carry gun enough to carry with a round in the chamber, it is probably time to go shopping for a better one.

Or leave your firearm for the range.

Meh, better yet just bring it to me. I'll be sure and take care of it for you

 

[Mdeng]

LOL. I'd love to know who taught that!

I think the student may have misunderstood the no permit open carry requirements.

 

[NickZac]

For me, always chambered whether a striker fired without safety, hammer with safety, hammer without safety, and when carrying SA, chambered, cocked, and locked.

I look at in the sense that the added time required to chamber a round may be the difference in the final outcome.

 

[RoadDawg]

For me, always chambered whether a striker fired without safety, hammer with safety, hammer without safety, and when carrying SA, chambered, cocked, and locked.

I look at in the sense that the added time required to chamber a round WILL be the difference in the final outcome.

FTFY...

 

[Biggfoot44]

Buncha Random further comments

1. Yes , there are a few random trivia type situatuions were a round should NOT be chambered. But all of them involve either carry methods I strongly recomend against and/or guns that shouldn't be carries for social purposes regardless. For a thread origionaly geared for newbies irrelevent and counterproductive to go deep trivia.

2. "Gun carrying" packs , etc generally should be considered to be low profile , portable gun storage, rather than a holster equivilent. Somewhat better than home in the safe , but a long way from being armed.

3. The very best state of the art fanny pack or belt pouch , under best scenarios might come sorta close to a very sucky holster. Average come more like twice as suck as a very sucky holster. Now if you had need to have a full size .44Mag close at hand , while wearing only swim trunks , then yeah , a fanny pack would be least worst option.

3. When I mentione the ( minority , but not tiny ) viewpoint of carrying on safe , it is not to keep one's self from shooting themselves in the foot , it is for other reasons.

4. With apologies to the average citizens of Israel , deliberate , volentary condition three carry is a very bad idea. Everybody has mentioned the time factor ( very true ). A few mentioned the need for two hands , when the other hand may well be unavailable , or otherwise in use ( also very true ). A third reason is that it requires very major telegraphing of your actions. Either if needing to enter a situation where you are not yet on the radar of the malefactor , or if you feel it wish to have gun in hand , but not blatently in sight

5. Yes Virginia , there exist such things as *Secure Areas* , but 99.9% of the public will never come near one, or have any idea where they might be. So continue whith the presumption that there aren't any.

6 As applies to revolvers , the Utah style "statutory unloaded" is NOT the same thing as "empty chamber under the hammer. Utah style require the second chamber to be empty , it is nuetral about the chamber under the hammer. If you were to hypothetically carry an SAA , or three screw BlackHawk "Utah style" , you would need to have two adjacent chambers empty. But unless you go back to the very first 1899 production M&P , or 1889, 1892-96 Colts , any name brand US mfg DA revolver is safe to carry with all chambers loaded.