Concealed Carry Safety

[Blaster229]

I never think when I sit in Starbucks for an hour in the morning on my day off is such a"threat", but having it in a small pack is at least something. But I carry every single day so it's tiresome.

 

[redeemed.man]

I never think when I sit in Starbucks for an hour in the morning on my day off is such a"threat", but having it in a small pack is at least something. But I carry every single day so it's tiresome.

Understood and I agree. I bet the Starbucks drinkers 50 feet away from the Columbia Mall shooter felt the same prior to that wack job playing Columbine on one Saturday morning. You can never know for sure. I hope to never encounter anything like that but you never know. I got shot and stabbed in two separate incidents less than a year apart when I was much younger. Both times I was unarmed and had poor situational awareness. Never again.

 

[JMintzer]

You know what? It's OK to go without one in the pipe for a couple of outings until you see that the seat belt buckle won't set it off. Or bumping the doorknob will be not result in a bang. Perfectly fine

That is exactly what I did. First few times out, I carried unchambered. Once comfortable, one in the pipe...

 

[CypherPunk]

With a revolver, some leave the first chamber to strike, empty. Just simply another quick trigger pull alleviates that. But a revolver would be the least pistol I'd worry about "snagging" the trigger to fire. Just like a DAO pistol.

If you're carrying on you, then it HAS to be hot because tenths of a second count for that first shot.
If you are lobbing it in a back pack, computer case, etc.. Just to at least have something with you, you have already lost your reaction time. Might as well leave the chamber empty for the safety factor of the gun floating around in a bag, whether in a holster or not.

People who know what they are doing don't leave a gun floating around in a bag.

It's secured in a holster, and the trigger is protected.

 

[Blaster229]

People who know what they are doing don't leave a gun floating around in a bag.

It's secured in a holster, and the trigger is protected.

Yeah. Ok. So, an unchambered pistol in a pocket inside a computer bag/backpack is how dangerous? Things are not getting tossed around to where the slide can rack a round.
Maybe floating was the wrong word.

 

[RoadDawg]

Yeah. Ok. So, an unchambered pistol in a pocket inside a computer bag/backpack is how dangerous? Things are not getting tossed around to where the slide can rack a round.
Maybe floating was the wrong word.

I never encouraged the practice with any of my Officers. I was quick to remind them of the reports they were taking for "snatch and grab thefts" where the victims had no time to react before the thief was on his way out the door with their bag AND everything in it. The issue is not one of a chambered round when the pistol is in the bag. It is about the security of that bag. I rarely if ever see one that is held close enough that the average thief can't get it and run away before the owner can react.

I will NOT carry in a briefcase or backpack that is not properly attached securely to me. It only takes one half seconds lack of attention for you to be sitting there having to tell the nice Police Officer how your firearm was stolen from you. And that's not something that any of my Officers ever wanted to write an administrative report for.

Secure carry is the ONLY justifiable carry.

 

[Minuteman]

Just curious....how many people keep a round chambered in their concealed carry weapon that does not have a safety? How many feel this is too dangerous?

Hi. Nice collection of guns you have going there.

I recommend folks carry unloaded at home with their rig (i.e belt, pants, holster, or whatever your set up will be) for at least a few weeks before carrying in public (when/where legally allowed). That will give you a chance to see what works and get comfortable; builds confidence too. Nothing like taking your first dump dealing with a holstered gun.

Carry loaded with one in the chamber when you are absolutely ready and certain you can safely use the firearm for self defense. I personally do not like handguns with a manual external safety. It's unnecessary as my finger is my safety, and my brain makes the decision. All modern firearms have various safety features, having an additional manual safety is one more thing to train on, worry about accidentally engaging or breaking.

There are very rare times when some folks carry without a proper holster (which prevents anything from touching the trigger), in these rare times, they might elect to carry without a round chambered. There are very few absolutes, all safety is relative. Be wary of people that speak in absolutes or dismiss others opinions. Most criminals do not use a holster, I doubt they give much thought as to the condition of the gun or how to use it.

Buy a good quality leather or kydex holster and a good quality gun belt. Will cost a couple hundred bucks maybe, but you'll save money in the long term, and be much safer and comfortable with quality gear. Check out SimplyRugged, OldFaithful, Kholster, and BladeTech to name a few.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Blaster229]

I never encouraged the practice with any of my Officers. I was quick to remind them of the reports they were taking for "snatch and grab thefts" where the victims had no time to react before the thief was on his way out the door with their bag AND everything in it. The issue is not one of a chambered round when the pistol is in the bag. It is about the security of that bag. I rarely if ever see one that is held close enough that the average thief can't get it and run away before the owner can react.

I will NOT carry in a briefcase or backpack that is not properly attached securely to me. It only takes one half seconds lack of attention for you to be sitting there having to tell the nice Police Officer how your firearm was stolen from you. And that's not something that any of my Officers ever wanted to write an administrative report for.

Secure carry is the ONLY justifiable carry.

Eh not really.
So, not a fan of concealment backpacks, fanny packs, maxpedition versi packs, 5.11 bags, women's holster purses and a whole industry that revolves around those items?

 

[traveller]

Most criminals do not use a holster, I doubt they give much thought as to the condition of the gun or how to use it.

They also shoot themselves in the ass or groin with some regularity. I bet Plaxico Burress didn't use a holster.

 

[SgtKope]

They also shoot themselves in the ass or groin with some regularity. I bet Plaxico Burress didn't use a holster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgL...twIwAA&usg=AFQjCNEz4ZVbDdv31puT2EnnTEyROfRCUA

 

[Rack&Roll]

They also shoot themselves in the ass or groin with some regularity. I bet Plaxico Burress didn't use a holster.

That idiot was wearing sweat pants in a night club and carrying Mexican. The gun slid down to his knee where he grabbed it from the outside and bang--Homie wif a Hole...

 

[jwhite407]

Over 20 years in law enforcement, I have always carried a round in the chamber in my CCW. I currently carry a Glock 23 (past 10 years?). I use a holster that has Level 2 retention and covers the trigger guard. Never have had any concerns or issue with it. While it doesn't have a traditional button or lever safety, it has safeties built in. Essentially, it's not going to go bang unless the trigger is pulled.

 

[CypherPunk]

Eh not really.
So, not a fan of concealment backpacks, fanny packs, maxpedition versi packs, 5.11 bags, women's holster purses and a whole industry that revolves around those items?

Can YOU draw from each of these safely, without sweeping yourself and consistently under stress?

 

[niftyvt]

Can YOU draw from each of these safely, without sweeping yourself and consistently under stress?

I sweep my lower body every time I put on/draw from my holster. It happens; keep your finger off the bang switch and your fine. And I always carry with one in the chamber and top off my mag.

 

[E.Shell]

People who imagine they will have time to load a CC firearm in a defensive situation have ZERO understanding of how most incidents requiring defensive measures occur.

You will typically NOT get a warning to advise you to make ready and most often, the victim does not realize they are targeted until the attack is underway.

If you cannot draw and fire in one motion, you may not be effective and more training is in order. Taking time to load is ludicrous.

 

[traveller]

If you cannot draw and fire in one motion, you may not be effective and more training is in order. Taking time to load is ludicrous.

Well, there is 'israeli carry' and for someone who practices this, it IS one motion to draw and rack the slide. The only thing you lose is the use of your weak hand during the draw, e.g. to push someone out of the way or to swipe away a garment.

 

[clandestine]

Can YOU draw from each of these safely, without sweeping yourself and consistently under stress?

I bet he can and I know I can as well (From a Maxpedition Versipak)

 

[TxAggie]

All modern firearms have a safety, some are simply built into the firing mechanism ie. Glock and S&W M&P.

That being said:

http://youtu.be/bTalnzcO0xk

 

[Blaster229]

Can YOU draw from each of these safely, without sweeping yourself and consistently under stress?

I am more than qualified in this so I will be happy to entertain your question.
No I can't because I don't train with them as a self defense reaction carry like I do from my belt holster. I am not an advocate of these as a replacement for a quick draw system to defend your life with. To me, these are made for two different purposes and you cannot compare the both ways to carry. It's apple and oranges.

Now, that out of the way, let's break this down into 2 categories.

1. Carrying a weapon ON you and 2. carrying a weapon WITH you.

I sometimes use these type things to carry a pistol WITH me. I have no illusions that carrying a pistol in one of these is ideal in a self defense reaction situation. I will leave a pistol unchambered, in a suede sleeve type holster and put it inside a bag, any bag actually, that I carry other things in when I go someplace I am just sitting, i.e... Starbucks in the morning on my day off.

It's better to have something with you than to have nothing at all. You cannot tell me that this is something dangerous to do. If a novice wanted to have a pistol with them this way, I say why not? Where's the hurt reaching into a bag, grabbing it and making it hot if you have to present it?

People who carry 5,6, 7 days a week, 8 - 12 hours a day sometimes for work need to decompress out of condition yellow and just relax. Maybe you don't understand that, I don't know. But many who do, do.

When I carry on me, it is in a holster, hot and on my belt (or some other scenario dependent method). This is how I train and how I carry ON me.

Again.... On and WITH are 2 different things altogether.

I have a wealth of knowledge and can teach a hell of a concealment methods portion of a class if you need any help

 

[E.Shell]

Well, there is 'israeli carry' and for someone who practices this, it IS one motion to draw and rack the slide. The only thing you lose is the use of your weak hand during the draw, e.g. to push someone out of the way or to swipe away a garment.

"...The only thing you lose...".

Time for a dynamic training class. Not the typical "CCW Class" in which one simply assumes the Isosceles Stance of Death in front of paper targets and studies law, but a real defensive training class that includes forceful grapples and near-full speed exercises. A class in which simulated attacks are carried out and countered (or not) will clear up this foolishness for the many here who cannot seem to fathom the potential speed and violence of action. Training will vividly demonstrate the value of split seconds and the undeniable idiocy of an empty gun for defensive CCW.

Our citizen CCW applications do not resemble military or police applications. It is a different matter entirely. As citizens, we are not brought into an active situation with time to ramp up our cautionary measures and prepare. We are not called to action on someone else's behalf.

We must REACT to something that is already conceived, already in motion against us. Legally and practically speaking, even if we feel apprehensive, we cannot react unless/until we are directly threatened. Clearly, if the attacker is with a few feet or yards and already in motion, you simply will not prevail with an empty firearm.