sig 516, POF 416, HK 416 which is the better rifle?

pasayan73 · Oct 27, 2010

i don't see much info about the sig 516 in the net....but since it's a sig must be a good AR platform out there......
CALLING MAUIWOWIE!!!!!!!

POF 416 are said to be the better piston driven AR rifles out there, that is coming from the POF people...pricey though.

Happen to watch youtube last night and saw HK 416, there's even a discovery channel episode about it. Very impressive. I wonder why it's not for sale in the US. the only rifle that comes close to it is a umarex hk 416 22lr version.

between this 3 rifles, which do you think is the better rifle?

Calengor · Oct 27, 2010

pasayan73 said:
i don't see much info about the sig 516 in the net....but since it's a sig must be a good AR platform out there......
CALLING MAUIWOWIE!!!!!!!

Is this rifle even out on the market yet? I do know they copied their BCG from LWRC.

POF 416 are said to be the better piston driven AR rifles out there, that is coming from the POF people...pricey though.

Some people say POFs are reliable, others refer to them as POS... YMMV. POF was the first company I looked at when I was thinking about getting a piston AR, but after I read some things, I looked elsewhere.

Happen to watch youtube last night and saw HK 416, there's even a discovery channel episode about it. Very impressive. I wonder why it's not for sale in the US. the only rifle that comes close to it is a umarex hk 416 22lr version.

You can get 416 uppers here in the states, but they go for ridiculous prices. These are supposed to be very good, but you're not going to get customer service from HK. I've also heard (granted, from a competitor) that people are seeing only about a 5000 rd life to these uppers.

Also, you can't really say that a umarex made .22lr copy of the 416 compares to any of these. Besides that, I've heard of problems with the umarex Colt M4-22, so I wouldn't trust their 416 to be any better.

between this 3 rifles, which do you think is the better rifle?

Of these three, the HK.

mikec · Oct 27, 2010

pasayan73 said:
i don't see much info about the sig 516 in the net....but since it's a sig must be a good AR platform out there......
CALLING MAUIWOWIE!!!!!!!

What does SIG know about AR's? In my opinion they just built one to get some police contracts.

As for MW, no disrespect to him, but he has only been in rifles for less than a year.

If you NEED a piston 5.56 I think most knowledgeable folks would say either the SIG 556 or the LWRC.

clandestine · Oct 27, 2010

None of the above, get LWRC if you want piston.

IMHO piston AR's a solution looking for a problem. Stay Direct Impingement

jimbobborg · Oct 27, 2010

clandestine said:
IMHO piston AR's a solution looking for a problem. Stay Direct Impingement

After scrapping the carbon out of my bolt control group and off the tail of the bolt, again, I'm seriously considering a piston AR.

Jim

clandestine · Oct 27, 2010

jimbobborg said:
After scrapping the carbon out of my bolt control group and off the tail of the bolt, again, I'm seriously considering a piston AR.

Jim

Carbon is fine, its self limits, but if you clean like I do then get some SLip 200 Carbon Cutter, put BCG in it and the next day carbon comes off much easier.

I now use Spikes Nickle Boron M16 BCG's and they wipe clean with a rag.

smores · Oct 27, 2010

mikec said:
What does SIG know about AR's? In my opinion they just built one to get some police contracts.

As for MW, no disrespect to him, but he has only been in rifles for less than a year.

If you NEED a piston 5.56 I think most knowledgeable folks would say either the SIG 556 or the LWRC.

I've seen the 516, took it apart. It's kinda neat, Definitely like the rail, like their lower with the QD sling swivel mounts machined in, left hand mag release as well. Their piston system does look very similar to LWRC. I can't speak to its reliability as I haven't even shot it, but on the surface it actually does look like one of the better piston systems I've seen.

clandestine said:
None of the above, get LWRC if you want piston.

IMHO piston AR's a solution looking for a problem. Stay Direct Impingement

I agree. LWRC has excellent stuff. If you're shooting suppressed, I'd say it's a must, unless you wear goggles when you shoot. Shooting a DI AR with a can vs. an LWRC is like night and day, the LWRC being pleasant and the DI being pretty lame. What fun is a can when you're getting hot gas and possibly vaporized lubricant/carbon mix spit in your face?

I've shot a full auto, suppressed LWRC and ran 2 mags through it back to back. There was just a tiny bit of smoke coming out between the receivers, absolutely no gas blowing back into my eyeball like with the DI one I shot.

clandestine · Oct 27, 2010

smores said:
I agree. LWRC has excellent stuff. If you're shooting suppressed, I'd say it's a must, unless you wear goggles when you shoot. Shooting a DI AR with a can vs. an LWRC is like night and day, the LWRC being pleasant and the DI being pretty lame. What fun is a can when you're getting hot gas and possibly vaporized lubricant/carbon mix spit in your face?

I've shot a full auto, suppressed LWRC and ran 2 mags through it back to back. There was just a tiny bit of smoke coming out between the receivers, absolutely no gas blowing back into my eyeball like with the DI one I shot.

You are correct about shooting a D.I. supressed. There are 3 things I have found to help with the blowback though. Its still not as care free as a Piston Setup, but works well.

1) PRI Gas Buster Charging Handle
2) Noveske Switchblock
3) Using Thicker Lube such as Grease

One serious negative besides parts availibility and commonality is Piston AR's is dirtying up the optics glass.

smores · Oct 27, 2010

clandestine said:
You are correct about shooting a D.I. supressed. There are 3 things I have found to help with the blowback though. Its still not as care free as a Piston Setup, but works well.

1) PRI Gas Buster Charging Handle
2) Noveske Switchblock
3) Using Thicker Lube such as Grease

One serious negative besides parts availibility and commonality is Piston AR's is dirtying up the optics glass.

I usually lube the bolt with a LIGHT coat of CLP, carrier gets a little CLP and the areas that bear against the receiver (4 little "rails" and sides of the carrier key) get weapon shield grease. Works very well for me, since I put a Colt extractor spring and O-ring in my 11.5" AR, lubing it like that I haven't had a single malfunction for several hundred rounds. I was having extraction issues before. Even with the standard non-H carbine buffer, it runs great.

SCARCQB · Oct 27, 2010

Which one is the most accurate?

Pasayan, did you see this?

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=44815

Calengor · Oct 27, 2010

SCARCQB said:
Which one is the most accurate?

Pasayan, did you see this?

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=44815

LWRC might be the most accurate, as it uses a heavy cold hammer forged barrel, and the piston doesn't move until after the bullet has left the barrel. Unsure of the mode of operation on the other ones or what their barrel materials are.

pasayan73 · Oct 27, 2010

thanks scarcqb....i watched the video.....the udmc PVAR rifle is totally BADASS!!

Kchen986 · Oct 27, 2010

The carbon from a piston LWRC goes underneath the hand guards. It's a pain in the ass to clean off, just like the bolt tail from a DI system. That said, buy a LWRC if you're going to go piston.

Calengor · Oct 27, 2010

Hit it with some 725 after you use it, or let it sit with some Carbon Killer for a bit.

jiggler · Oct 27, 2010

i thought you could get the 416 hear, but just the upper

smores · Oct 27, 2010

jiggler said:
i thought you could get the 416 hear, but just the upper

Right and it's called the MR556A1, and is supposedly not out yet. I knew there were rumors of the uppers floating around but I have never seen one in person.

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/mr556_general.asp

Calengor · Oct 27, 2010

smores said:
Right and it's called the MR556A1, and is supposedly not out yet. I knew there were rumors of the uppers floating around but I have never seen one in person.

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/mr556_general.asp

You see 416 uppers up for sale fairly often. The MR556 will have some features that will not allow it to mate to a standard lower due to German export laws. HK416 uppers (used take-offs from demo guns or agencies replacing theirs) are being offered for sale, usually in classified ads on some forums, for 3000 to 5000 dollars. Oh, and if you do buy one, don't expect any customer service from HK if you need any parts or repairs.

Here's a listing for 416 uppers: http://forum.lwrci.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?p=81409#p81409

smores · Oct 27, 2010

Calengor said:
Oh, and if you do buy one, don't expect any customer service from HK if you need any parts or repairs.

Of course not... Why would anyone ever expect that!? :rolleyes:

Oh H&K, how doth thee hate us. :sad20:

That's the thing. They really do make some awesome crap, if you're so graced by the hand of God to be so privileged to acquire it through the proper channels...

deesly1 · Nov 17, 2011

I absolutely love my sog 516 patrol. Just last weekend I fired about 500 rds in the course of maybe two hours. (loading time) When I got home the bolt was as clean as when I left. The gas Piston however needed to be cleaned. I absolutely love this rifle! I have seen the same tests the H&K put the 416 through, SigSauer put the 516 through and it performed in the exact same manner. They are pricey but worth the extra money. Oh and the coolness of the bolt is true. If you fire that thing and field strip, the bolt is cool to the touch! Great rifle!

AliasNeo07 · Nov 17, 2011

Calengor said:
I've also heard (granted, from a competitor) that people are seeing only about a 5000 rd life to these uppers.

How is this possible? I was under the impression quality uppers like BCM, DD, etc, were around 30k.

sig 516, POF 416, HK 416 which is the better rifle?

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