Handgun transport in MD
- Thread starter Mark75H
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast
Member Benefits:
No ad networks! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
It must have changed or I misread it,but I swear there used to a listing under exceptions (4-203) that said something to the affect of "to or from where allowed to legally possess".Which is still pretty much covered (especially as a DC).
I think the "legally posses" wording is from FOPA that you can use when traveling interstate.
I bet he put "firearms instructor" as his occupation
DutchV
Ultimate Member
- Jul 8, 2012
- 4,730
That's probably accurate. It sounded like firearms instruction is his full-time job. I only know him from taking one class.
CypherPunk
Opinions Are My Own
- Apr 6, 2012
- 3,907
IMHO, a firearms instructor would be more likely to be approved for "makes deposits", or "monetary flow" then transporting 20-30 regulated firearms and ammunition to a publicly advertised, state mandated, HQL class.
However, Instructors were getting approved (sometimes requiring an informal appeal) for restricted permits while carrying regulated firearms or ammunition as a Maryland Certified Instructor.
Commander Brady and staff appear to have clamped down on most handgun permit approvals and renewals over the summer, after the licensing division was purged.
As stated, it all seems to depend on the prevailing political winds, the Trooper who's desk the app lands on, who trained them, the degree to which they honor their oath, the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, and a multitude of other seemingly random, subjective and inexplicable factors.
However, Instructors were getting approved (sometimes requiring an informal appeal) for restricted permits while carrying regulated firearms or ammunition as a Maryland Certified Instructor.
Commander Brady and staff appear to have clamped down on most handgun permit approvals and renewals over the summer, after the licensing division was purged.
As stated, it all seems to depend on the prevailing political winds, the Trooper who's desk the app lands on, who trained them, the degree to which they honor their oath, the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, and a multitude of other seemingly random, subjective and inexplicable factors.
mtnwisdom
Active Member
I would not suggest applying for W & C with a 'minimal' teaching load demonstrated or projected.
A demonstrated (over years) and projected teaching load (that includes government and armed security professionals) was the supporting evidence for the permit in my case.
Aside from potential bias on the issue (W&C in general), it is simple due diligence on the investigator's part to recommend "Decline" on an applicant using the G&S reason of professional Firearms Instructor (and the associated transport and security of regulated firearms, etc.) in the absence of a demonstrated teaching load.
It is, IMHO, a G & S reason for any QHI transporting multiple regulated firearms; BUT, the number of QHI's exploded with the ability to simply take the NRA BIT and Pistol Instructor class over a weekend. This did not do the pro 2A community any favors. It did not require anymore regulation than what was already in place. At a minimum, the minimum of one full year (one of the pre-requisites for the pre-2013 legislation) of documented teaching experience (albeit this also is subjective) would have certainly helped to minimize. But this takes the discussion off point....
If you teach more than 'if and when' and have done so for more than a year or two, and you can demonstrate that along with your projected continuance of same... IMH experienced O, you should apply for W & C for your safety while doing so. Just remember, we are talking about Maryland, and it is your responsibility to demonstrate definitively (through supporting evidence) that you have a reasonable G & S.
It wouldn't hurt to have a pro 2A attorney, maybe the one that you use for your PPITH and PPOTH classes, review your app and specifically the G & S documenting evidence to see if you have made a compelling argument. Just a thought out loud.
-Chuck
A demonstrated (over years) and projected teaching load (that includes government and armed security professionals) was the supporting evidence for the permit in my case.
Aside from potential bias on the issue (W&C in general), it is simple due diligence on the investigator's part to recommend "Decline" on an applicant using the G&S reason of professional Firearms Instructor (and the associated transport and security of regulated firearms, etc.) in the absence of a demonstrated teaching load.
It is, IMHO, a G & S reason for any QHI transporting multiple regulated firearms; BUT, the number of QHI's exploded with the ability to simply take the NRA BIT and Pistol Instructor class over a weekend. This did not do the pro 2A community any favors. It did not require anymore regulation than what was already in place. At a minimum, the minimum of one full year (one of the pre-requisites for the pre-2013 legislation) of documented teaching experience (albeit this also is subjective) would have certainly helped to minimize. But this takes the discussion off point....
If you teach more than 'if and when' and have done so for more than a year or two, and you can demonstrate that along with your projected continuance of same... IMH experienced O, you should apply for W & C for your safety while doing so. Just remember, we are talking about Maryland, and it is your responsibility to demonstrate definitively (through supporting evidence) that you have a reasonable G & S.
It wouldn't hurt to have a pro 2A attorney, maybe the one that you use for your PPITH and PPOTH classes, review your app and specifically the G & S documenting evidence to see if you have made a compelling argument. Just a thought out loud.
-Chuck
As long as the class is given at a range, its still legal to transport to the class. Also, the OP could be a Designated Collector, a registered HQL class would certainly be either a formal or informal showing of the handguns as DC's are permitted to transport to.
- another alternate, the class could be given at the instructor's residence
I still find it fuzzy to consider the local community center or VFW hall the instructor's "place of business" I don't really think that's what the General Assembly meant when they wrote that wording, unless "place of business" actually has a definition that applies to all of COMAR
JamesH
That Guy
The poor quality of Maryland's laws in this regard is clearly not limited to the flagrant disregard for the Second Amendment. The statues themselves are clear as mud and provide no help for someone trying to understand how to follow the law. 4-203 specifically, which begins with "a person may not:
(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;"
and only gives back the permission with:
(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;
But if you read that, it doesn't actually give you permission (as if you need it) to ever load the handgun while actually "engaged in" the allowed activity.
It also would almost seem to say you may "wear or carry" while "on the way to, or returning from that activity" as long as the gun is unloaded and in a compliant holster.
But clearly Maryland doesn't intend for you to ever have the gun loaded under any circumstance, nor to transport it anywhere other than in a locked container in the trunk of the car. I call shenanigans.
Also, since a violation of 4-203 carries a penalty of up to 3 years in jail, there also seems to be legislative intent, should you ever manage to misunderstand Maryland's fouled up, unclear, incomprehensible rules, that you will be stripped of your Second Amendment rights altogether. (See question 11.b on the ATF Form 4473.)
They can't take away your rights, but they can make it too expensive and too nerve-racking to actually enjoy those rights. Chilling effects, much?
(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;"
and only gives back the permission with:
(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;
But if you read that, it doesn't actually give you permission (as if you need it) to ever load the handgun while actually "engaged in" the allowed activity.
It also would almost seem to say you may "wear or carry" while "on the way to, or returning from that activity" as long as the gun is unloaded and in a compliant holster.
But clearly Maryland doesn't intend for you to ever have the gun loaded under any circumstance, nor to transport it anywhere other than in a locked container in the trunk of the car. I call shenanigans.
Also, since a violation of 4-203 carries a penalty of up to 3 years in jail, there also seems to be legislative intent, should you ever manage to misunderstand Maryland's fouled up, unclear, incomprehensible rules, that you will be stripped of your Second Amendment rights altogether. (See question 11.b on the ATF Form 4473.)
They can't take away your rights, but they can make it too expensive and too nerve-racking to actually enjoy those rights. Chilling effects, much?
Users who are viewing this thread
Latest posts
-
-
-
Montgomery County Gun Buyback: Interfaith GVP Network Aims to Hit $30,000 Goal by April 20 (1 Viewer)
- Latest: klutch
-
