Worth reloading 12 gauge?

[Biggfoot44]

Primers are intended to all be similar in function , just usual brand to brand differences.. In pre-panic times Winchester was most common , and had the most published data. Not nEsecarily better , but self-fulfilling popularity cycle.

No , all hulls are NOT the same. Even disregarding for the moment how many loadings they are good for , they all have different internal dimentions/ capacities.

Which leads us into , there are no universal wads. In shotshells , the VOLUME of the powder load is at least as important as burning speed and pressure. In shotshells there is no airspace possable like in metalic , wads of different heights are needed to have the shell loaded to proper ( volume of innards ) to allow for a proper crimp.

Shotshell loading is simple enough while following a known reciepe , but there are dual layers of interlocking variables involved in the reciepies.

If you have multiple types of hulls :

Plan A - If you load more than one loading , use seperate hulls for each .

Plan B - If you use same loading for all your loading , consider trading/ selling / Karma'ing the oddballs.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Wow, everyone here must have a 9-5. Or use a phone app. TO pDaddy. I appreciate your offer and that you mentioned it at all. I sent a PM, if you didnt receive it, well then oh well. That is all fine and dandy. Im not going to get my "wad" in a bunch. Nor did I recieve a PM from you. And yes I know how to check PM's ive had several conversations with members since Ive joined through the PM system on the forum. I suppose a slight hiccup in the system or who knows. Not worth arguing over spilt milk. I think I may consider a progressive loader anyway. If I can cut cost in shells, I'll be going longer and more often, thus using even more shells than I already do.

Wow, I did not expect such a huge response. This forum is a great resource. Appreciate all the members being so welcoming and helpful.

SOMDSHOOT - I will definitely keep that in mind. I have been carry around a bucket with me to skeet and trap the past few weeks. A few friends who go with me toss in my bucket as well, so I have my shells plus a few friends shells everytime I go out. But I will PM you about your recipes. I have a few questions about how to match up wad/shot/grains in certain shells.

Actually I may just open ask this now so I can get multiple inputs.

Ive collected an assortment of Winchester - Federal - Estate - NSI - Remington

Looking up recipes im being told only to load certain hulls with certain wads and primers. Im assuming even if i keep my grains at a moderate amount there is not such thing as a universal wad i can use. Shouldnt i be able to match my primers to my powder - my grains to my load and just use whatever wad I want as long as they fit the shotshell size? I mean... do I really need to buy separate wads for every type of shell i reload? I generally pick up "cheap" shotshell hulls. arnt they all fairly the same as long as theyre not paper?

Please dont chastise me if I sound like a bumbling fool. Honest to god, im not scared to say Im new to this shit. I just bought my first shotgun a few months ago. And my AR and handgun a few months before that.

.

I'll make it simple. I have reloaded every kind of hull, regardless of the name and color on it, and I use the same primer, the same shot cup, the same amount of powder in every one. I will agree that there can be much confusion out there about using this primer with this hull and that wad with this powder and primer and.... you get the point.

Anyway. I buy one 4 pound jug of powder, one 1000 count box of primers and a few bags of the same wads for all of my hulls. The only thing that changes in my reloading of 12 gauge is that I have two decisions to make:

1) Do I need #4 Steel shot, #5 Copper Plated shot or do I need #7 lead shot ?
....* This means am I shooting at Turkeys, Crows, or orange clays.

2) Am I reloading a 2-3/4" Low Brass or a 3" High Brass hull ?
....* This means do I only use this amount of powder or do I need to up-it for the 3" hull.

That's the only two questions I have to answer when reloading.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

I reload 12g just for avalibility. I also enjoy shotgun reloading.

It is rather calming and helps renew your interests in going to shoot at something all at the same time. I'll go punch out 50 to 100 shotshells, that I usually don't need, just to do it. I give away more reloads than I actually shoot. It's sort of like a boredom-preventer sometimes. At the end I have made the comment, "Now what the hell am I gonna do with all these ?" You know I have about 300 12 gauge slugs loaded I forgot I even had. That's silly. ( this is why I own a bullet trap. I can shoot a lot of good lead that gets remelted and recast )

Here's a fine example. Last night I reloaded these 12 Ga. slugs, only because the hulls were primed and setting on my bench, I figure if they are going to have to be moved again, I may as well load them and put them away. The really bad part is, I don't even own a gun that will shoot these slugs.

.

 

[byf43]

I shoot 10 to 15 thousand rounds of 12 gauge a year, with even cheap shells approaching 6 to 7 bucks a box I can save quite a bit reloading. I buy all components in bulk.
I only reload Remington Gun Club, STS or Winchester AA hulls, you can use the same wad in these 2 hulls as they are both tapered, the other hulls are straight and require a different wad and usually more powder,also the cheap Federal have a fiber base wad that could come loose and lodge in your barrel, not good.
I shoot mainly Claybuster CB1100 wads for 1oz loads, work well in both the Remington and AA hulls, this way can buy cases of 5000 wads. If I load 1 1/8 I also use a AA clone for both hulls.
Powders are Reddot, Promo or Claydot for 1 oz and Greendot for 1 1/8, all loads use data to keep them right around 1200 fps; I like the Fiocchi primers,have used about 60k of them without an issue, much cheaper than AA right now.
I started with a MEC 600jr but quickly realized I was shooting so much I was spending all my time reloading, found a used MEC 9000 that was screwed up and got it for cheap, spent a month straightening it out and it now works vey well, can crank out 200 to 300 shells an hour depending how I feel.
With a progressive you really need to keep ypur eye on everything, make sure the primer drops and doesn't flip, if you have a spill and you will you must atke the press apart and clean it, a piece of shot will really screw stuff up.
A cheaper alternative to the 9000 is the Grabber, same press just manual advance instead of auto, only slightly slower.

I've come to about the same conclusion.
I load everything that is in red boldface, above, plus the old black Mohawk and the fantastic Peter's Blue Magic hulls.

While the black Mohawk hulls load exactly the same, I've found that these and the Winchester AA cases don't tolerate as many loads as the Gun Club, STS and the Blue Magic hulls.

My absolute favorite hull is the old Blue Magic hulls.
I've still got a 1/2 keg/barrel of these magnificent once-fired hulls put away!!

My shot column/ shotcup / 'wad' of choice is the Claybuster AA12 clone.
I bought these in bulk when I found 'the load' that I found to pattern the best in my 1100.

As for what to load...... OP, get yourself the Lyman Shotshell loading handbook!!!
This book breaks down the manufacturer, gauge, length, hull composition, powder choice (and charge weight), shotcup or 'wad', and even gives velocity and pressures.

In other words..... this is "THE" book that you'll wind up using!!!

As for presses...... I use an OLD MEC 600 Jr. It's so old, it's a "Pre" Mk V press.
It was OLD when I got it, in 1979!!
(I got a good deal on this. An OLD Zenith 19" color television that needed work in trade for the press. My then B-I-L made the offer. I think I got the better end of that 'deal'. I still have the press and got rid of him and my first wife!!! Ha!!)

At work, on our intranet, we have a "Classifieds" section, and I stumbled upon a MEG 9000G for sale, for $125.00!!!
The owner had only loaded a few rounds on it, and due to work, stopped shooting.
I snatched up this magnificent press!!!!!
The ONLY downside to this purchase...... I had to drive to Middletown, DE to get the press!!

 

[platoonDaddy]

.

I'll make it simple. I have reloaded every kind of hull, regardless of the name and color on it, and I use the same primer, the same shot cup, the same amount of powder in every one. I will agree that there can be much confusion out there about using this primer with this hull and that wad with this powder and primer and.... you get the point.

Anyway. I buy one 4 pound jug of powder, one 1000 count box of primers and a few bags of the same wads for all of my hulls. The only thing that changes in my reloading of 12 gauge is that I have two decisions to make:

1) Do I need #4 Steel shot, #5 Copper Plated shot or do I need #7 lead shot ?
....* This means am I shooting at Turkeys, Crows, or orange clays.

2) Am I reloading a 2-3/4" Low Brass or a 3" High Brass hull ?
....* This means do I only use this amount of powder or do I need to up-it for the 3" hull.

That's the only two questions I have to answer when reloading.

Very interesting and simple decisions. Dang.

Pls educate me: for trap loads: I load 1 1/8 of lead shot, with figure 8 wads and 16.5 grains of Red Dot with Win209's. Using your decision process step #1, I would only have to change the shot to steel and or copper plated and I am good to go?

Corrected: should have read lead. Bitch getting old

 

[hkbob]

yeah but your bullets fly like shit! i know i know, you cant see that far anyway

As long as they consistently fly like shit!!! Lol!

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Very interesting and simple decisions. Dang.

Pls educate me: for trap loads: I load 1 1/8 of lead shot, with figure 8 wads and 16.5 grains of Red Dot with Win209's. Using your decision process step #1, I would only have to change the shot to steel and or copper plated and I am good to go?

Corrected: should have read lead. Bitch getting old

That depends on #2. For clays / trap I use a low brass hull with X# amount of powder for #7 lead shot. If you use #4 Steel or #5 Copper Plated shot, then you are most likely going to use a high brass hull, which then allows you to use X# more amount of powder. However, if you want to use 16.5 grains of powder in a low brass trap load then use 16.5 grains of powder in a low brass hull and use steel or copper shot then sure. However, using low brass hull with Steel or Copper shot doesn't serve much purpose for its intended use. That's sort of like hunting Geese with a target load.

 

[fabsroman]

Yeah, if I have spare time, reloading is worth it and therapeutic. If I have to load shells instead of cranking out billable hours, then it is not worth it. With that said, I just loaded up 250 rounds of Remington STS-Nitro shells. I load hulls to different specs.

Remington STS - green: 1 oz. 1200 fps
Win AA - red: 1 1/8 oz at 1080 fps
Win AA - silver: 1/ 1/8 oz. 1145 fps
Remington STS - Nitro: 1 1/8 oz 1200 fps

This way, when I am shooting sporting clays I know exactly which shell to use. I also use the Nitros for dove hunting and crow hunting. Even "upland" hunting on the eastern shore whenever we do that BS.

I have a spreadsheet with even more loads on it for even more hulls. Fed Gold Medal, Remington RXP, Remington Peters Blue Magic, and the list goes on. However, the 4 above are my main clays loads.

If you have time on your hands, shoot a lot, and want to save money (or shoot more), then reloading will allow you to do that.

The thing I like about reloading is that it allows me to tailor the loads exactly the way I want them.

I also think you get what you pay for with some of those cheaper bargain loads. Essentially, you get softer shot and crappier powder. The softer shot creates more fliers and a less dense pattern. The crappy power leaves your gun full of crap.

End of the day, I try to use reloads in all my guns. Not always possible when I am under a time crunch and a shooting/hunting opportunity comes up, but such is life. Before getting married and having kids, I rarely, if ever, used anything but reloads.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Yeah, if I have spare time, reloading is worth it and therapeutic. If I have to load shells instead of cranking out billable hours, then it is not worth it. With that said, I just loaded up 250 rounds of Remington STS-Nitro shells. I load hulls to different specs.

Remington STS - green: 1 oz. 1200 fps
Win AA - red: 1 1/8 oz at 1080 fps
Win AA - silver: 1/ 1/8 oz. 1145 fps
Remington STS - Nitro: 1 1/8 oz 1200 fps

This way, when I am shooting sporting clays I know exactly which shell to use. I also use the Nitros for dove hunting and crow hunting. Even "upland" hunting on the eastern shore whenever we do that BS.

I have a spreadsheet with even more loads on it for even more hulls. Fed Gold Medal, Remington RXP, Remington Peters Blue Magic, and the list goes on. However, the 4 above are my main clays loads.

If you have time on your hands, shoot a lot, and want to save money (or shoot more), then reloading will allow you to do that.

The thing I like about reloading is that it allows me to tailor the loads exactly the way I want them.

I also think you get what you pay for with some of those cheaper bargain loads. Essentially, you get softer shot and crappier powder. The softer shot creates more fliers and a less dense pattern. The crappy power leaves your gun full of crap.

End of the day, I try to use reloads in all my guns. Not always possible when I am under a time crunch and a shooting/hunting opportunity comes up, but such is life. Before getting married and having kids, I rarely, if ever, used anything but reloads.

Thank You Very Much for stating these two comments.

That is exactly my point and the reason why I reload shotshells myself. I started shooting clays again after a few years of being forced out of it, but, when I got back in to it, my Wife had taken up the interest as well. We go to Walmart and see these 100 round boxes of Winchester clay / target loads and think "WOW ONLY $18.00 a box ?" Oh my what a joke. A very dirty joke. They were so weak you could throw the shotshell itself faster and further instead of actually shooting it. The residue from those shotshells was unreal. Black smut everywhere. Now with reloading you get to choose the powder and detail the shot size and type, use the cleanest powder you want, get much better results than any store bought ammo. That I will agree with.

The same thing applies to my 12 gauge Goose, Crow, and Turkey reloads. I bought a couple boxes of Kent, Estate, and Remington 3" shells that were supposed to be "Super-Duper, Extreme, Heavy Duty, Whopping, Magnum" whatever you want to call it. I shot a few of those and simply shook my head. I thought, "How am I supposed to knock a Goose out of the sky with this crap ?" I could. If said Goose was 20 yards or less away from me. And these shells were $19.00 and $22.00 for boxes of 25 !

This is where the thoughts of getting back in to reloading my own shotshells and slugs again came back in to play. Since I have started reloading again I have never looked back and I have not bought a commercial box of shotshells or slugs since. I can not use nice clean burning powder, up the anty with my own Steel and Copper shot selections and add all the powder I need to get the payload out there and put the wings on the ground. I am now hitting birds at ranges I have never even thought about shooting at before. I've gone from using an IC and Modified chokes of yester-year to now using a Full and Extra Full chokes for Crow and Goose. Unbelievable advantages to to making your own.

The problem is that commercial retail stores today only stock what they receive from their "inventory procurement specialist". Which in WalMart and Dick's case, for example, is some kid out of high school who is more interested in chatting on that damned smart pad phone thing. The crap they get in stores today is just that. You have the options of whatever crap they get. They don't order it themselves. So, if you want what you need you gotta cook it yourself.

Inevitable Progression:

The same story falls in to play here with me and my muzzleloader shooting. I own lots of muzzleloaders and muzzleloading is my game. I'm not a big fan of modern rifles and shotguns. "Point and Click" hunting does nothing for me. I want to point and pray it goes bang. Anyway, my point is with local stores and their poor choices of stock items. They, most everyone, only stock a 240 grain muzzleloader bullet that usually retails for about $23.00 per 15 bullets REALLY !?!?!? Now, that 240 grain muzzleloader bullet is really cute and all, but, I want to hit that Deer hard... not throw a spit ball at it.

These muzzleloader bullet companies really prey on the "sucker" who buys these bullets at those prices from the big retail chains. Yes, you are a sucker if you buy those bullets for $20.00 to $30.00 a pack and you are only getting 15 or 20 bullets. These companies should give you a voucher for the BIG JAR OF VASELINE with every Muzzleloader bullet purchase. And I am not afraid to say it to anyone's face in person. It's simply a fact. YOU ARE A SUCKER. I have been using purchased hard and soft cast lead .45 cal pistol bullets and putting them in sabots for years on my own. I have only gotten back in to casting my own bullets over the past few years. Oh what a savings even more now.

Therefore, casting bullets was an inevitable expansion of my return to reloading. Now I can cast a 300+ grain bullet all day long and pay pennies per bullet. The point of this novel is simple. Reloading and Casting bullets has many advantages. It's so economical I give away Muzzleloader bullets and shotgun shells and slugs and don't even notice it.

 

[fabsroman]

Thank You Very Much for stating these two comments.

That is exactly my point and the reason why I reload shotshells myself. I started shooting clays again after a few years of being forced out of it, but, when I got back in to it, my Wife had taken up the interest as well. We go to Walmart and see these 100 round boxes of Winchester clay / target loads and think "WOW ONLY $18.00 a box ?" Oh my what a joke. A very dirty joke. They were so weak you could throw the shotshell itself faster and further instead of actually shooting it. The residue from those shotshells was unreal. Black smut everywhere. Now with reloading you get to choose the powder and detail the shot size and type, use the cleanest powder you want, get much better results than any store bought ammo. That I will agree with.

The same thing applies to my 12 gauge Goose, Crow, and Turkey reloads. I bought a couple boxes of Kent, Estate, and Remington 3" shells that were supposed to be "Super-Duper, Extreme, Heavy Duty, Whopping, Magnum" whatever you want to call it. I shot a few of those and simply shook my head. I thought, "How am I supposed to knock a Goose out of the sky with this crap ?" I could. If said Goose was 20 yards or less away from me. And these shells were $19.00 and $22.00 for boxes of 25 !

This is where the thoughts of getting back in to reloading my own shotshells and slugs again came back in to play. Since I have started reloading again I have never looked back and I have not bought a commercial box of shotshells or slugs since. I can not use nice clean burning powder, up the anty with my own Steel and Copper shot selections and add all the powder I need to get the payload out there and put the wings on the ground. I am now hitting birds at ranges I have never even thought about shooting at before. I've gone from using an IC and Modified chokes of yester-year to now using a Full and Extra Full chokes for Crow and Goose. Unbelievable advantages to to making your own.

The problem is that commercial retail stores today only stock what they receive from their "inventory procurement specialist". Which in WalMart and Dick's case, for example, is some kid out of high school who is more interested in chatting on that damned smart pad phone thing. The crap they get in stores today is just that. You have the options of whatever crap they get. They don't order it themselves. So, if you want what you need you gotta cook it yourself.

Inevitable Progression:

The same story falls in to play here with me and my muzzleloader shooting. I own lots of muzzleloaders and muzzleloading is my game. I'm not a big fan of modern rifles and shotguns. "Point and Click" hunting does nothing for me. I want to point and pray it goes bang. Anyway, my point is with local stores and their poor choices of stock items. They, most everyone, only stock a 240 grain muzzleloader bullet that usually retails for about $23.00 per 15 bullets REALLY !?!?!? Now, that 240 grain muzzleloader bullet is really cute and all, but, I want to hit that Deer hard... not throw a spit ball at it.

These muzzleloader bullet companies really prey on the "sucker" who buys these bullets at those prices from the big retail chains. Yes, you are a sucker if you buy those bullets for $20.00 to $30.00 a pack and you are only getting 15 or 20 bullets. These companies should give you a voucher for the BIG JAR OF VASELINE with every Muzzleloader bullet purchase. And I am not afraid to say it to anyone's face in person. It's simply a fact. YOU ARE A SUCKER. I have been using purchased hard and soft cast lead .45 cal pistol bullets and putting them in sabots for years on my own. I have only gotten back in to casting my own bullets over the past few years. Oh what a savings even more now.

Therefore, casting bullets was an inevitable expansion of my return to reloading. Now I can cast a 300+ grain bullet all day long and pay pennies per bullet. The point of this novel is simple. Reloading and Casting bullets has many advantages. It's so economical I give away Muzzleloader bullets and shotgun shells and slugs and don't even notice it.

You and I will have to disagree about cast bullets for hunting versus manufactured bullets. I have been using Barnes Expander bullets in my muzzleloader and slug gun and they work extremely well. In 50 caliber they come in 250 grain and 300 grain.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/muzzleloader/expander-mz-2/

It is my opinion that it does not matter how heavy a bullet is, within reason of course (e.g., don't use a 50 grain bullet on a moose and a 500 grain bullet on a groundhog). Only thing that matters is how much energy get deposited within the target. Ideally, you want a bullet just heavy enough to deposit almost all of its energy within the animal before it goes out the other side. With my bullet selection, I am looking for massive internal damage and a huge wound channel. I shot a doe with my slug gun one time quartering away and she dropped in her tracks. The bullet entered her rear right hip and it was lodged in her left front shoulder. The internal organs were complete mush and I was able to retrieve the "slug" that had expanded just as it was supposed to. I just used it to show my wife why I just ordered Barnes TAC-XP bullets for our handguns instead of using FMJ. Been using 10 year old Remington Golden Sabres in my 9mm, but now that we have new guns in 40 S&W and .45 ACP, figured it was time to start loading for them too and to pick a better bullet choice.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

You and I will have to disagree about cast bullets for hunting versus manufactured bullets. I have been using Barnes Expander bullets in my muzzleloader and slug gun and they work extremely well. In 50 caliber they come in 250 grain and 300 grain.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/muzzleloader/expander-mz-2/

It is my opinion that it does not matter how heavy a bullet is, within reason of course (e.g., don't use a 50 grain bullet on a moose and a 500 grain bullet on a groundhog). Only thing that matters is how much energy get deposited within the target. Ideally, you want a bullet just heavy enough to deposit almost all of its energy within the animal before it goes out the other side. With my bullet selection, I am looking for massive internal damage and a huge wound channel. I shot a doe with my slug gun one time quartering away and she dropped in her tracks. The bullet entered her rear right hip and it was lodged in her left front shoulder. The internal organs were complete mush and I was able to retrieve the "slug" that had expanded just as it was supposed to. I just used it to show my wife why I just ordered Barnes TAC-XP bullets for our handguns instead of using FMJ. Been using 10 year old Remington Golden Sabres in my 9mm, but now that we have new guns in 40 S&W and .45 ACP, figured it was time to start loading for them too and to pick a better bullet choice.

I am being extremely nice today, however, I will prove my point also.

I don't get it. You say you have to disagree with me and my cast Muzzleloader bullets, yet you turn right around and agree that you use the Barnes bullets for the same reason I use my cast bullets that I use for the same purpose ?

Let me enlighten you on my Cast Hunting bullet... This is a 400 Grain Hollow Point 45-70 GOVT cast bullet that I use for Deer hunting. The HP is 3/8" deep ( how much more expander do you need ). The bullet is also slightly hardened with Antimony ( my additive of choice ) I serve the Internal vitals gut soup mush as you do.

I can cast a few hundred of these for what a pack of them Barnes bullets cost. I have to assume, that you assumed, I was hunting with a .45 cal pistol bullet from a revolver ? No. I use those for shooting all day at paper targets. I'll put this 45-70 HP against your Barnes any day Pal.

As a side note.
I can always paint these bullets in a Copper color and sell them for the same price as the Barnes if you wish. Vaseline not required.

$40.00 for 20 Barnes bullets in 300 grain ?!?!?!?
HOLY MOTHER OF DOOM ! REALLY ?????
( bottom picture )
Do you know how many hundreds of Muzzleloader bullets I can make for $40.00

​

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Now back to Shotgun Reloading.
The Regularly scheduled program.
​

 

[fabsroman]

Now back to Shotgun Reloading.
The Regularly scheduled program.
​

Nope, you do NOT get the FIRST and the LAST word on this one. The first word being to call anybody using anything other than cast bullets in their muzzleloaders and shotguns SUCKERS and the last to proclaim you are being "nice" while doing so.

I'm cheap, but I am not stupid. Sometimes, things are worth paying for. Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Sometimes, you get taken for a ride. Can I kill deer with cast bullets? Sure. Are they the optimum choice for the job? Nope. I have killed tons of deer with the good old Remington Slugger that is essentially a lead foster type slug. Not the same thing as a wad like Lyman slug, but I put the two in the same category when it comes to slugs. Would I try a 150+ yard shot on a deer with an all lead slug, whether cast or not? Probably not. I would have to be suffering from some severe buck fever with lead slugs being the only thing I have available.

I know what is going to come next. The brilliant you will tell me that you have devised a way to make your cast slugs fly as aerodynamically as these jacketed bullets, and not only that, but to make a very soft metal like lead expand in a controlled manner and still retain 100% of its weight.

Like I've said, I've hunted with lead slugs and copper jacketed sabots. In my opinion the copper jacketed sabot cannot be beat for accuracy, penetration, and controlled expansion. I'll attach a pic of the sabots I use and the Barnes expander sabot I recovered from the deer I shot rear right hindquarter to left front shoulder. The pic clearly shows that the sabot expanded fully, retained its weight, and did what it was supposed to do. That shot was made at 100 yards, give or take a couple.

Next thing you are going to tell me is that cast bullets are preferred for self defense in handguns and for hunting in high powered rifles.

It is rather uncalled for to call people SUCKERS based upon your opinion. Now, if you want to start providing some actual statistical data to back up your claims before calling a vast number of people SUCKERS, then maybe I'll listen.

 

[covertpanda]

No

 

[covertpanda]

No

Ha, I just saw where post landed. I meant "NO" to reloading 12ga; not whatever craziness is listed above.

 

[fabsroman]

Ha, I just saw where post landed. I meant "NO" to reloading 12ga; not whatever craziness is listed above.

lol - if you view the thread in a hybrid mode, it is easy to tell that you were responding to the OP. In traditional mode, it looks like you were responding to the insanity between SoMD and me. lol

That is why I almost always quote who I am responding too.

 

[Bronsononson]

I leave this thread for one day and all hell breaks loose. Lmao next i suppose you guys are going to pull out your dicks to see who's is bigger? Yes?

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

I leave this thread for one day and all hell breaks loose. Lmao next i suppose you guys are going to pull out your dicks to see who's is bigger? Yes?

Honestly, don't take this like it's a screaming match, It's nothing like that all.

Blame it on that dang hkbob. He got us in this mess.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Nope, you do NOT get the FIRST and the LAST word on this one. The first word being to call anybody using anything other than cast bullets in their muzzleloaders and shotguns SUCKERS and the last to proclaim you are being "nice" while doing so.

I'm cheap, but I am not stupid. Sometimes, things are worth paying for. Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Sometimes, you get taken for a ride. Can I kill deer with cast bullets? Sure. Are they the optimum choice for the job? Nope. I have killed tons of deer with the good old Remington Slugger that is essentially a lead foster type slug. Not the same thing as a wad like Lyman slug, but I put the two in the same category when it comes to slugs. Would I try a 150+ yard shot on a deer with an all lead slug, whether cast or not? Probably not. I would have to be suffering from some severe buck fever with lead slugs being the only thing I have available.

I know what is going to come next. The brilliant you will tell me that you have devised a way to make your cast slugs fly as aerodynamically as these jacketed bullets, and not only that, but to make a very soft metal like lead expand in a controlled manner and still retain 100% of its weight.

Like I've said, I've hunted with lead slugs and copper jacketed sabots. In my opinion the copper jacketed sabot cannot be beat for accuracy, penetration, and controlled expansion. I'll attach a pic of the sabots I use and the Barnes expander sabot I recovered from the deer I shot rear right hindquarter to left front shoulder. The pic clearly shows that the sabot expanded fully, retained its weight, and did what it was supposed to do. That shot was made at 100 yards, give or take a couple.

Next thing you are going to tell me is that cast bullets are preferred for self defense in handguns and for hunting in high powered rifles.

It is rather uncalled for to call people SUCKERS based upon your opinion. Now, if you want to start providing some actual statistical data to back up your claims before calling a vast number of people SUCKERS, then maybe I'll listen.

You obviously do not have the experience with the hard cast lead HP bullets, so, I will wait until that day when you have experience with the bullet in question. Otherwise we're just going in circles with what you use versus what I use and since you have never used what I use we just can not compare final outcomes. The difference is I have used what you use. I have tried them all.

 

[byf43]

You obviously do not have the experience with the hard cast lead HP bullets, so, I will wait until that day when you have experience with the bullet in question. Otherwise we're just going in circles with what you use versus what I use and since you have never used what I use we just can not compare final outcomes. The difference is I have used what you use. I have tried them all.

Time out, for one minute.

I agree quite a bit with what fabsroman said in his post, just a couple above this.

Calling someone a ________ (any name) because they don't see eye-to-eye with you, is not only un-called for, it's just not 'right'.
This is exactly why there is chocolate, vanilla and strawberry ice cream. Not everyone likes the same 'stuff'.

Some of us do not cast our own slugs, nor do we WANT or NEED to.

I'd much rather spend my time doing something else, than cast/load/test/re-test a homegrown lead slug.

These muzzleloader bullet companies really prey on the "sucker" who buys these bullets at those prices from the big retail chains. Yes, you are a sucker if you buy those bullets for $20.00 to $30.00 a pack and you are only getting 15 or 20 bullets. These companies should give you a voucher for the BIG JAR OF VASELINE with every Muzzleloader bullet purchase. And I am not afraid to say it to anyone's face in person. It's simply a fact. YOU ARE A SUCKER. I have been using purchased hard and soft cast lead .45 cal pistol bullets and putting them in sabots for years on my own. I have only gotten back in to casting my own bullets over the past few years. Oh what a savings even more now.

Sorry, SOMDSHOOT...... calling any of us "Suckers" just isn't called for.