Whom offers the 8 hour hgp refreher course

[Blaster229]

Holy chit did not know my spelling grammar mistake of useing the word “whom” (spell check) opposed to “who” would cause so many hurt feelings when asking simple question about a renewal class. If directed at my original post title.I am Seeking information, nothing more ,nothing less grammar police no need to reply
Thanks for feedback on renewal training options guys

So we should ignore REFREHER also?

And if breaking it down a little more, it isn't a "ccw" or a "hgp". It's the W&C permit.

 

[cobra]

Or maybe I should have called title where can I get the renewal class needed that allows me to carry a firearm in public aside from restricted areas
Since my initial permit will expire
Yea that’s the ticket
Thanks all for your suggestions.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Also, keep in mind renewals are based on birth date, not date of issue. That initial surge is now divided over 12 months, so the classes will be smaller in size. This is, actually, a good thing for the attendees.

Maybe?

It all comes to market demand. Depending on their business model / personal motivations , for typical classes there is a certain minimum class size to be viable for their time and fixed overhead.

Some training providers will adjust their mix of offerings to reflect client demand. Which could result in fewer classes offerings for Renewal than for initial. Or the market could sort out to some making a specialty of Renewals. Or offer value added Renewal classes with also including more advanced instruction, since by definition all the attendees will have a baseline prerequisite.

And I'll predict it first . For scheduling and logistic reasons , there will be people taking a convient reasonably priced 16hr class to renew if it's close and given in the necessary time window.

 

[Biggfoot44]

And if breaking it down a little more, it isn't a "ccw" or a "hgp". It's the W&C permit.

In fairness, MSP will sometimes interchangeably use HGP for W&C . No legal or statutory basis for it , but it's MSP , and they'll post random made up stuff .

 

[Blaster229]

In fairness, MSP will sometimes interchangeably use HGP for W&C . No legal or statutory basis for it , but it's MSP , and they'll post random made up stuff .

Thanks

 

[Phoenix_1295]

Maybe?

It all comes to market demand. Depending on their business model / personal motivations , for typical classes there is a certain minimum class size to be viable for their time and fixed overhead.

Some training providers will adjust their mix of offerings to reflect client demand. Which could result in fewer classes offerings for Renewal than for initial. Or the market could sort out to some making a specialty of Renewals. Or offer value added Renewal classes with also including more advanced instruction, since by definition all the attendees will have a baseline prerequisite.

And I'll predict it first . For scheduling and logistic reasons , there will be people taking a convient reasonably priced 16hr class to renew if it's close and given in the necessary time window.

I was referring to current class size (~20) vs the 100+ student class sizes immediately after Bruen.

 

[cobra]

What exactly is needed to forfill the MSP requirements for renewal?

Are we required to take day one or day two class and then shoot the required target ?

I took my initial class with Miles and highly recommend it. I received much more training then what msp required I’m sure. Highly recommend his training and have recommended his class’s to others seeking training.

What does msp demand of instructors when they give renewal class.day one? Day two ?

Being one of the many that took initial course once good and substantial bs got struck down.
Sure, many of us have the same question on renewal class and prefer to train with a forum
Instructor
Thanks

 

[Mark75H]

Renewal is 8 hours including shooting the same qualification you shot the first time. Before October of last year, instructors only needed to cover the 3 required classroom subjects and the qual. Now there is an extensive required curriculum for both initial and renewal. The classroom instruction is degraded compared to what you initially received from Miles.

 

[miles71]

What exactly is needed to forfill the MSP requirements for renewal?

Are we required to take day one or day two class and then shoot the required target ?

I took my initial class with Miles and highly recommend it. I received much more training then what msp required I’m sure. Highly recommend his training and have recommended his class’s to others seeking training.

What does msp demand of instructors when they give renewal class.day one? Day two ?

Being one of the many that took initial course once good and substantial bs got struck down.
Sure, many of us have the same question on renewal class and prefer to train with a forum
Instructor
Thanks

The renewal and initial have the same requirements after the new laws went into effect. Unfortunately that means the renewals cannot be easily satisfied by attending one of the two days of the initial course by nature of the participants attending for different reasons. While I have included all the required materials in day 1 of my course I still think range time is important for the renewal.

I am considering g a few different approaches but do think I’ll be scheduling one day renewal only classes in the near future. As always, If a group of 6 or so need it I’ll schedule it. I NEVER have or will let my courses get oversized, 16-18 max., and I don’t plan on a price raise anytime soon.

Thanks for the kind words Cobra. I do not plan on diminishing my instruction quality due to the requirements of the new laws. If you need that renewal let me know and we will figure it out.

TD

 

[BurkeM]

What exactly is needed to forfill the MSP requirements for renewal?

Are we required to take day one or day two class and then shoot the required target ?


What does msp demand of instructors when they give renewal class.

8 hours training, which includes shooting the 25 or 50 round qual.

See the MSI website for the 72 pages of 'outline.'

 

[Mark75H]

8 hours training, which includes shooting the 25 or 50 round qual.

See the MSI website for the 72 pages of 'outline.'

50 round W&C qual????

 

[Biggfoot44]

50 round W&C qual????

For " Armed Professionals " . i.e. Armed Security , Private Investigators , Armored Car , etc .

 

[Mark75H]

For " Armed Professionals " . i.e. Armed Security , Private Investigators , Armored Car , etc .

I don't think they are taking W&C renewal classes from QHIC instructors

 

[cobra]

Tony I will definetly take the renewal class you offer along with highly recommend it to others that need renewal class training.
No doupt we will get more then the mandated training required by MSP .

 

[scottyfz6]

First I dont teach classes outside of the club I belong to, and its members only. So No threat to IP's here.

I took some important stuff from the NRA basic pistol and ccw class and a bunch of the pages from the MSP outline for a renewal type class. I removed the stuff that was covered by the nra classes and the state outline, so it was not covered twice. Things like cleaning firearms, I used the basic pistol stuff, same for types of carry from the ccw course. As I feel the nra slides are pretty well polished for that stuff.

I made a power point to cover everything that was needed, its 205 pages. I wanted to see what it would take for a renewal class. AKA did not spend too much time on things like parts of a cartridge, but I did cover it as required. I did a mock class, it took every bit of 6 hours at a fast pace, i feel it meets what the SP requires. It was a lot of info to give in 6 hours, basically 3 hours of nra type basic pistol and ccw type stuff, and 3 hours of the laws from the outline. Sure If nothing had to be explained it could be done in 6 hours, but as soon as I added things like demonstrations with different types of pistols, passing around fired cases ( showing the primer ) etc it added a lot of time. Let alone doing things like demonstrating drawing from a holster and stoppage remediation just take time.

I dont think it would be appropriate for someone who is just trying to a renewal and is not a gun person. Its just so much so fast.

Now I am posting this for people to see who are asking about renewal classes, dont be surprised if a good instructor wants to go over 8 hours. And yes it might even just mean taking a full 16 hours again.

 

[Mark75H]

Well said Scotty. As I keep preaching, the new MD required curriculum degraded the instruction given by the top tier instructors.

I agree, the required curriculum presented in a professional manner with the shooting qual and some additional handgun handling and shooting is probably a 9 hour class at minimum. I have decided to offer renewal students 2 choices: 9 hours 1 day or take the entire 16 hour class with regular initial applying students; no 8 hour class.

 

[scottyfz6]

Well said Scotty. As I keep preaching, the new MD required curriculum degraded the instruction given by the top tier instructors.

The stupid things that the state added in just add so much time that takes away other important stuff. Like 45 mins on suicide prevention, same for anger management.

I would rather spend 45 mins doing gun handling, and sight alignment/trigger press. Than spending 15 mins saying "you just might have to agree that you wont agree and dont get mad about it" Or going over the signs that someone may be thinking about suicide. And I say that as someone who lost a sister to suicide.

I aimed for 6 hours to have 2 on the range if it was a real class.

 

[miles71]

Lets face it, the MSP could have done this right but instead threw something together. What they have provided is not a curriculum but instead a gathering of legal opinions quoting the Md. law, some of which does not apply to handguns or permit holders. They also included de-escalation for people who know each other, not de-escalation in public, State handouts would be provided but are not, and "organized" the whole thing in no particular order.

A curriculum should be organized in a logical order and be a minimum requirements for a course. It should contain bullet points and suggested activities, but the teacher (instructor) should have the freedom on how to deliver the information. This verbatim script provided is not conducive to learning.

One day when I am feeling frisky I am going to take the State mandated stuff and turn it into a curriculum. Then sell it for one billion dollars (evil laugh)....................


TD

 

[Mark75H]

MSP got that garbage from DHMH. Some pages are just cut and paste from the DHMH website. Some are even low res screenshots. Unbelievable garbage. A middle schooler could have done better but it meets the letter of the law per the act of the General Assembly. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised it is a disservice to the public

 

[Gun Commander]

Ok, I’m going to go out on a limb here. Looking at the comments here I feel like some folks are over thinking it. MD certified me as an instructor based on my credentials to teach firearms. By adding things to the curriculum such as anger management, conflict resolution, and suicide prevention, and not sending me to , or requiring me to attend trainer level certification in those subjects, then the best I can do is present the materials, provide the resources (handouts) and do it in a professional manner. Since there is no written test, I’m going to do the best I can with what I have, and then get back to what I do well; teaching people how to handle their firearms in a defensive situation, and staying out of jail while doing it.

Regarding the new law portion of the MSP curriculum, it is definitely a bit “wordy.” A lot of it just goes too far down the rabbit hole. Again, I present it, provide it as a hand out, provide useful links on a word document and we have some discussion. But we don’t spend all day on it.

Now to answer the original question. I haven’t figured out the best way to schedule a recertification class. I advertise on my website that they are scheduled “as needed.”


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