Which subcompact 9mm?

[fidelity]

Hey Fidelity, with you on the guns - I too have the P238 and PPS 9mm (love both), do not want a P938 (no need) and I also currently have a no-safety Shield with Apex trigger (required) and HD night sights. But in regards to your summer gun, you have a typo there - I believe you meant the PPQ M1 or M2, not a PPS M1 or M2. As you said before, the PPS comes in 9mm or .40, but there is no M1 or M2 version as far as I know. I happen to own a PPQ M2 (mag safety), but wish it was the M1 (trigger guard safety) - I happen to like the European/HK-style trigger guard mag releases.

Looks like Dave G mentioned the updates to the PPS line. I too like the trigger guard embedded mag releases as I find them fast to use - although there is a MAC YouTube video with an HK VP9 that shows one getting snapped off after rough treatment of the pistol. The release on my HK USP Compact (40) seems a bit safer as it is stubbier, and like you, I am a Walter fan and have a PPQ M1, P99 AS, and P99 Compact AS - all with the trigger guard releases. The P99 Compact AS is my winter carry (where I am permitted of course! gratuitous pic below). Although there is PPQ/P99 variance, I love the triggers on these Walthers. They also interchange mags, and the spare mag in the pic with the P99 Compact holds 15-rounds (although a 10-rd P99 Compact mag won't fit into the larger pistols).

I've held off on the PPS (now also designated the M1 with the creation of the second gen with grip embedded mag release - the mag 2 - M2 version) because of mixed reviews on the trigger ... and completely avoided the CCP after the general panning of the trigger. I'm wondering if the trigger is improved on the PPS M2.

Although I might prefer an M1 type mag release on the PPS, it probably isn't as big an issue for the small single-stack pistol. Mag changes with a single-stack in a subcompact gun probably are more rate limited by putting a thinner mag into a narrower mag well anyway (Blaster, who has experience on the topic with a P239, I believe, has mentioned this in the past), and the mechanics of releasing from the trigger guard in a thinner grip gun for me might not be as fast as it is with a fatter grip for a double stack mag.

The Walther PPS is most certainly NOT a .380. Its a 9mm. Maybe you're mixed up with a PPK?

Lol, poor guy has been corrected three times now.

 

[highli99]

2mm is the wrong measurement.

i know i know guys have been saying that for years. "It's all about the foot pounds of energy and "shot placement". But then it always comes back to the millimeters...

 

[beretta_maven]

Check out walther's site. They just released a M2 version for the PPS. They did away with the European mag release and the pic rail. They also changed the grip. It looks like a mini PPQ now.

OH NO!!!!! My first thought was, HOW COULD THEY RUIN THE PPS! Now that I've seen the new M2, I want one! Just wish they had kept the trigger guard mag release. And of course, if I sell my M1 PPS, I can't keep all the mags I've accumulated because they won't work in the M2. That is the only reason I haven't sold my PPQ M2 to buy an M1 - too much invested in magazines.

Anyway, thank you much (and Fidelity) for the info.

 

[beretta_maven]

Looks like Dave G mentioned the updates to the PPS line. I too like the trigger guard embedded mag releases as I find them fast to use - although there is a MAC YouTube video with an HK VP9 that shows one getting snapped off after rough treatment of the pistol. The release on my HK USP Compact (40) seems a bit safer as it is stubbier, and like you, I am a Walter fan and have a PPQ M1, P99 AS, and P99 Compact AS - all with the trigger guard releases. The P99 Compact AS is my winter carry (where I am permitted of course! gratuitous pic below). Although there is PPQ/P99 variance, I love the triggers on these Walthers. They also interchange mags, and the spare mag in the pic with the P99 Compact holds 15-rounds (although a 10-rd P99 Compact mag won't fit into the larger pistols).

I've held off on the PPS (now also designated the M1 with the creation of the second gen with grip embedded mag release - the mag 2 - M2 version) because of mixed reviews on the trigger ... and completely avoided the CCP after the general panning of the trigger. I'm wondering if the trigger is improved on the PPS M2.

Although I might prefer an M1 type mag release on the PPS, it probably isn't as big an issue for the small single-stack pistol. Mag changes with a single-stack in a subcompact gun probably are more rate limited by putting a thinner mag into a narrower mag well anyway (Blaster, who has experience on the topic with a P239, I believe, has mentioned this in the past), and the mechanics of releasing from the trigger guard in a thinner grip gun for me might not be as fast as it is with a fatter grip for a double stack mag.



Lol, poor guy has been corrected three times now.

Like I said, we seem to like the same guns. I, too have a P99 AS Compact, and a P2000SK and P30SK. Just sold my VP9 to pick up the P30SK. But I seriously want the PPS with the PPQ grip

Lol, poor guy has been corrected three times now.

I was going to jump in to correct him, too, but fortunately, kept reading the thread and saw that the job was done for me!

 

[davsco]

just to throw another option out there, sti lawman 3.0. nothing beats the feel of a 1911.

 

[beretta_maven]

just to throw another option out there, sti lawman 3.0. nothing beats the feel of a 1911.

Roger that - have an STI Escort (9mm) and will never trade or sell it.

 

[Dave Greenberg]

OH NO!!!!! My first thought was, HOW COULD THEY RUIN THE PPS! Now that I've seen the new M2, I want one! Just wish they had kept the trigger guard mag release. And of course, if I sell my M1 PPS, I can't keep all the mags I've accumulated because they won't work in the M2. That is the only reason I haven't sold my PPQ M2 to buy an M1 - too much invested in magazines.

Anyway, thank you much (and Fidelity) for the info.

Same here. I love that paddle style mag release. All my guns have it. Once you get used to that, you don't want to go back to the thumb release.

 

[Dave Greenberg]

Looks like Dave G mentioned the updates to the PPS line. I too like the trigger guard embedded mag releases as I find them fast to use - although there is a MAC YouTube video with an HK VP9 that shows one getting snapped off after rough treatment of the pistol. The release on my HK USP Compact (40) seems a bit safer as it is stubbier, and like you, I am a Walter fan and have a PPQ M1, P99 AS, and P99 Compact AS - all with the trigger guard releases. The P99 Compact AS is my winter carry (where I am permitted of course! gratuitous pic below). Although there is PPQ/P99 variance, I love the triggers on these Walthers. They also interchange mags, and the spare mag in the pic with the P99 Compact holds 15-rounds (although a 10-rd P99 Compact mag won't fit into the larger pistols).

I've held off on the PPS (now also designated the M1 with the creation of the second gen with grip embedded mag release - the mag 2 - M2 version) because of mixed reviews on the trigger ... and completely avoided the CCP after the general panning of the trigger. I'm wondering if the trigger is improved on the PPS M2.

Although I might prefer an M1 type mag release on the PPS, it probably isn't as big an issue for the small single-stack pistol. Mag changes with a single-stack in a subcompact gun probably are more rate limited by putting a thinner mag into a narrower mag well anyway (Blaster, who has experience on the topic with a P239, I believe, has mentioned this in the past), and the mechanics of releasing from the trigger guard in a thinner grip gun for me might not be as fast as it is with a fatter grip for a double stack mag.



Lol, poor guy has been corrected three times now.

You have a P99 and a P99 compact? I am a little jealous as those are hard to find. I was thinking about getting a P99 compact as a CCP. How do you like yours? Do you find it easy to conceal?

 

[rico903]

Your point? A .380 is 95 or 100 grains typically at most; a 9mm can be had at 147 grains, hollow point, and +P. Also, the energy of a 9mm is 50% to 150% more than a .380.

2mm is the wrong measurement.


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Kind of like .38Spl and .357 Mag

 

[beretta_maven]

You have a P99 and a P99 compact? I am a little jealous as those are hard to find. I was thinking about getting a P99 compact as a CCP. How do you like yours? Do you find it easy to conceal?

My P99 compact is another gun I won't ever sell or trade. With the 10 round mag, it is easy to conceal. It is light, really good trigger, and a joy to shoot. I ended up with a couple of 10 round mags for carry, and then bought several full-size P99 mags for the range. Walther makes a magazine grip extender that makes the full-size mags fit the compact. Can't go wrong with the P99.

 

[fidelity]

You have a P99 and a P99 compact? I am a little jealous as those are hard to find. I was thinking about getting a P99 compact as a CCP. How do you like yours? Do you find it easy to conceal?

The regular P99 is my HD gun, and the Compact, as I mentioned, is the carry gun. Consistent practice and mechanics between these platforms is nice.

The P99 Compact ranks up there with sliced bread - as you know - it's a striker fired pistol that's double action capable. After a thousand rounds or so with the gun, I've had this happen a few times at the range where the next round didn't fire in SA mode but did on a second trigger pull (DA mode). This happened a couple times with crap ammo - so I assumed that it was the ammo - but it also happened a couple of times with hot 9mm +P ammo - and was possibly my fault for not gripping the gun tight enough - such that the single action trigger pull didn't fire the round but instead placed it securely into battery - and the repull of the trigger (in DA mode) fired the round. This last bit is speculative but based on how I felt the gun operate in my hand (i.e. it felt like the round was pushed into battery and the slide moved slightly after the SA pull).

This double-action capability gives me huge peace of mind. I have a lot of confidence in the P99 design.

I wear it outside the belt with clothing that conceals it - so it is very comfortable. The dimensions of the pistol are extremely close to a Glock 26, so those that carry a G26 IWB can comment better on how it feels (probably also somewhat similar to a G19 given width of the slide).

Walther seems to release productions of the P99 Compact about twice a year. I get clusters of sales alerts, usually in the $500-540 range. It might be more price competitive in the future as they've been dropping the price of the PPS.

My P99 compact is another gun I won't ever sell or trade. With the 10 round mag, it is easy to conceal. It is light, really good trigger, and a joy to shoot. I ended up with a couple of 10 round mags for carry, and then bought several full-size P99 mags for the range. Walther makes a magazine grip extender that makes the full-size mags fit the compact. Can't go wrong with the P99.

Me too on the first (emboldened) sentiment.

There's a grip extension for a 15-rd P99 mag barely visible in the Remora mag holder in my above pic. Very convenient as you implied.

 

[JettaRed]

There's also a new, curvier PPS out now but with a button mag release (the PPS M2). Don't know if they've improved the trigger.

The PPS is a 9mm pistol, occasionally in 40 S&W. The famous PPK is sometimes chambered in 380.

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Oops!


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[JettaRed]

Perhaps you should fact check yourself before you respond. A Walther PPS comes in 9mm and 40. I believe you are thinking of a PPK.

Yep. I was. My bad. I have new glasses on order.


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[Dave Greenberg]

Yep. I was. My bad. I have new glasses on order.


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LOL I know this feeling. I just need new eyes period.

 

[Dave Greenberg]

The regular P99 is my HD gun, and the Compact, as I mentioned, is the carry gun. Consistent practice and mechanics between these platforms is nice.

The P99 Compact ranks up there with sliced bread - as you know - it's a striker fired pistol that's double action capable. After a thousand rounds or so with the gun, I've had this happen a few times at the range where the next round didn't fire in SA mode but did on a second trigger pull (DA mode). This happened a couple times with crap ammo - so I assumed that it was the ammo - but it also happened a couple of times with hot 9mm +P ammo - and was possibly my fault for not gripping the gun tight enough - such that the single action trigger pull didn't fire the round but instead placed it securely into battery - and the repull of the trigger (in DA mode) fired the round. This last bit is speculative but based on how I felt the gun operate in my hand (i.e. it felt like the round was pushed into battery and the slide moved slightly after the SA pull).

This double-action capability gives me huge peace of mind. I have a lot of confidence in the P99 design.

I wear it outside the belt with clothing that conceals it - so it is very comfortable. The dimensions of the pistol are extremely close to a Glock 26, so those that carry a G26 IWB can comment better on how it feels (probably also somewhat similar to a G19 given width of the slide).

Walther seems to release productions of the P99 Compact about twice a year. I get clusters of sales alerts, usually in the $500-540 range. It might be more price competitive in the future as they've been dropping the price of the PPS.



Me too on the first (emboldened) sentiment.

There's a grip extension for a 15-rd P99 mag barely visible in the Remora mag holder in my above pic. Very convenient as you implied.

I appreciate the time you took to provide a detailed description. I figured looking at it's dimensions that it was about the size of the baby glock. I'm a big fan of the European mag release and pretty much stick to firearms like this. I shot the P99 AS full size a few years back and fell in love with the grip and the trigger on it. It sounds like the Compact is similar so there is continuity there.

 

[thai]

Stuck between the G43 and the LC9s Pro. Trigger and extra mag go to the Ruger but nothing the G43 can't fix for a few bucks.

TMGN has both tried to rent both today but the wait was too long( 2 hours plus $70 or so to try them out).

Anyone have real experience with these? Just to mention, I shot the G17 and bought the USP because I liked the feel better. I probably just need to shoot both since it's a preference thing.

The USP is a great choice. I imagine you purchased the USPC, one of the finest; if not the finest, out of the box pistol on the market. Though if you are looking for a subcompact, it is still a little bit large for deep concealment. The Ruger is what I would look at next. The LC9S is a great choice. Ruger makes great dependable, reliable, and functional firearms.

I don't have any experience with Walther, but have heard great things about their products. Their P99 series were ugly as all get out and have not had any interest. But with their prices being even cheaper than Glocks, they would make a great pistol I would not mind getting a few just to throw in the trunk, and hiding all over my property and home.

 

[kenpo333]

kimber solo if you want to spend money
g43 in the midrange
lc9 for the budget - striker fired

 

[Speed3]

If I could find an HK P7 for a reasonable price that is what I would buy, but that isn't going to happen. In the mean time, still haven't made it to the range to shoot either of the ones on my list. Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[Speed3]

Shot the G43 and the LC9S....G43 it is. It shot better in my hands than the ruger. The trigger is shit though lol.

Looking for a g43 talo now

 

[Bafflingbs]

Just get the Ghost 4.5 connector bar. Makes the trigger awesome. And it's only about $24.