What we have is a people problem

[MDLiberty]

urban politics ruining the surrounding areas like we see all across the country.

 

[Hopalong]

From most of the conversations I've had with people they oppose guns and want stricter gun laws because it's the "liberal" thing to do. They somehow are under the impression that it is cool or hip to be a liberal and in order to be a true liberal they have to be anti-gun.

I feel like I'm in a society of automatons programmed to spew irrational drivel.

We need to turn these people on to libertarianism. It sounds kinda like liberalism, and you get to keep doing all the cool stuff you like without trampling on peoples' rights in the process.

The trick is to not directly insult them, but rather use satire. It is counter productive to insult them because that validates there view of you as uncouth.

It is best to talk over their heads and ask questions they can not answer and then simile sympathetically and walk away.

All liberals of this type think they are smart and that the proof is that they are liberals, where as we are ignorant gun clingers.

This. Don't tell them they're wrong, give them the information to let them figure it out on their own.

 

[tapeman1]

Don't tell them they're wrong, give them the information to let them figure it out on their own.

Truth.

While there are certainly a lot of liberals/progressives/left-leaning types who HATE firearms and everything about them, I think many of the people supporting gun control right now are simply doing it because it's "the liberal thing to do." When you challenge them on it in a reasoned and respectful way you force them to actually analyze their position. In many cases, they'll realize the error of their ways. I think that is a big reason for the decline we're seeing in national support for gun control. When they had the time to really think about it they came to the inevitable "EFF THAT SH!T" conclusion.


Also, I think the "go team" politics and polarization we've been experiencing in this country over the last 10ish years has had a big effect as well. There are a lot of folks on the left who support gun control simply because it's a thumb in the eye of right-wing types. They're not thinking about it enough to realize they're gouging out their own eye in the process.

 

[AntiGun]

Hopalong,

I couldn't agree more. I think one of the biggest problems we, as gun owners, have is that for decades, we sat by and said nothing. Didn't talk about our sport or hobby, didn't tell anyone we had guns, told are kids not to talk about it at school, etc. Now we find ourselves in a situation where our friends and neighbors have been taught to despise gun owners, never knowing that we are not the enemy.

It is a difficult subject to discuss with many people, but in some ways it is getting easier.....
Dogmeat

I agree.
I have become very open about my previously owned guns and my recent purchases. I tell people I work with and have taken some of them to the range. They catch my enthusiasm and are on the same page with me as I tell them about a recent range trip, a nice find at a shop, or how my wife insisted I buy that antique 22 rifle.
The responses have been surprisingly good to the point that I wonder why I didn't say anything years ago.
I work with very liberal people and expected backlash despite being socially liberal myself. I have to say I have been pleasantly surprised.
My wife's experiences at work have been similar.

Fear keeps us and our guns in the closet, so to speak.

It's not about being 'in your face', it's about education and familiarity.

 

[b00sh]

I really hate the whole conservative/liberal labels. It's like you have to choose a side. I can tell you right now that I'm in the middle. Some stuff should change, other stuff shouldn't. That being said, I think we should really increase punishments for those who commit crimes with guns. Banning TYPES of guns will never stop people from trying to find them outside the confines of the laws. Gangs are sometimes found in possession of fully automatic firearms. I've never even touched one!

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I really hate the whole conservative/liberal labels. It's like you have to choose a side. I can tell you right now that I'm in the middle. Some stuff should change, other stuff shouldn't. That being said, I think we should really increase punishments for those who commit crimes with guns. Banning TYPES of guns will never stop people from trying to find them outside the confines of the laws. Gangs are sometimes found in possession of fully automatic firearms. I've never even touched one!

We are at point in time where we have to choose sides. The time for fence sitting is over.

This is why I think we are going to be in trouble in 2014. The limp noodle syndrome has begun.

After the Annapolaas pounding the pro-gunners took, everybody had their ass hairs in a knot. It's gone from "I'm going to do what ever it takes to get my rights back", to "I'm not sure how I feel right now. I mean, I really like Rainbows and I'm in favor of Unicorn ownership".

ENOUGH is ENOUGH because you ain't gunna get it both ways. You can't have your AR-15 and your Unicorn too.

Either you're a pro-gun freak who is in it for the long haul or you are not.

Stop worrying about "criminal control". We tried that in Annapolis and it got us no where. Those who are anti-gun sure as hell ain't anti-criminal. It's not about crime. It's about keeping their voter base intact.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you really do have to choose a side and a position and you have to stay the course.

Sorry!

 

[Brooklyn]

I really hate the whole conservative/liberal labels. It's like you have to choose a side. I can tell you right now that I'm in the middle. Some stuff should change, other stuff shouldn't. That being said, I think we should really increase punishments for those who commit crimes with guns. Banning TYPES of guns will never stop people from trying to find them outside the confines of the laws. Gangs are sometimes found in possession of fully automatic firearms. I've never even touched one!

What are you in the middle of? Can you at least state the principles you claim to believe in? If so then you have chosen a side-- your side. On the other hand if you have no idea then you don't need a side. That's how it works.

 

[Jimbob2.0]

You are 100% right. Next they will be burning books because they instill dangerous ideas.

I sense it getting hot in here, about 451 degrees on the Fahrenheit scale

Shame our country has become bubble wrapped and controlled.

 

[b00sh]

What are you in the middle of? Can you at least state the principles you claim to believe in? If so then you have chosen a side-- your side. On the other hand if you have no idea then you don't need a side. That's how it works.

Socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Pro guns and pro choice.

 

[LeadSled1]

Funny thing is I see people all the time post on FB or talk about how guns are the problem, and the gun culture in America needs to be stopped, all guns need to be banned. Then in the next post they say they cannot wait for the next episode of Duck Dynasty.

 

[tapeman1]

Socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Pro guns and pro choice.

Right on, brother. We should hang out.


All my Liberal friends hate that I'm pro gun/2A and all of my gun friends hate that I'm liberal. I get no love.

 

[b00sh]

Right on, brother. We should hang out.


All my Liberal friends hate that I'm pro gun/2A and all of my gun friends hate that I'm liberal. I get no love.

I KNOW RIGHT?! I'm in GB til the end of May then I'm moving to Baltimore. You ever go to the Severna Park Taphouse?

 

[Brooklyn]

Socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Pro guns and pro choice.

That's called libertarian. Pick a party and push it toward your way of thinking. Do that and there are no losers. Stay on the sidelines and we all lose. There is no third way and no viable third way right now.

Time to get in the fight.

 

[b00sh]

That's called libertarian. Pick a party and push it toward your way of thinking. Do that and there are no losers. Stay on the sidelines and we all lose. There is no third way viable third way right now.

Time to get in the fight.

I know it's libertarian, and I'm hoping that next election Rand Paul makes a strong showing.

 

[Brooklyn]

I know it's libertarian, and I'm hoping that next election Rand Paul makes a strong showing.

Look its not going to happen. And in the meanwhile the enemies of liberty in both parties will entrench..

I am not a cynic, I am a realist. Rand Paul has a bright future as a leader in the Senate, but if he runs too soon he will lose. Republican s do not elect young and inexperienced presidents.

Even Reagan had to fail before he could succeed. If you want to work within the Republican party there is much to do to shift it to your, and incidently my way of thinking,but a Rand Paul hail Mary is going to do more harm than good.

We need leaders like Rand Paul to stay right were they are for awhile.

If you are more comfortable as a Democrat fine.. I leave you to figure out how to get them to understand the American ideal of freedom. American has always been libertarian and maybe someday that can happen again..

 

[Hopalong]

I don't see voting libertarian as a waste for me. While I'm almost certain that well never have a Libertarian President or more than a handful of Libertarians in Congress, voting that way sends a message. It says "hey you Democrats and Republicans, look at these votes you're missing out on because you're being too extreme".

The catch is that I live in central Maryland where national election results are a forgone conclusion. If I were to ever vote in a race that was actually close, I'd likely pick one party or the other.

This is just how I see things and what I do. Everybody should vote their own conscience.

 

[b00sh]

Look its not going to happen. And in the meanwhile the enemies of liberty in both parties will entrench..

I an not a cynic, I am a realist. Rand Paul has a bright future as a leader in the Senate, but if he runs to soon he will lose. Republican s do not elect young and inexperienced presidents.

Even Reagan had to fail before he could succeed. If you want to work within the Republican party there is much to do to shift it to your, and incidently my way of thinking,but a Rand Paul hail Mary is going to do more harm than good.

We need leaders like Rand Paul to stay right were they are for awhile.

If you are more comfortable as a Democrat fine.. I leave you to figure out how to get them to understand the American ideal of freedom. American has always been libertarian and maybe someday that can happen again..

Honestly everything in politics pisses me off. I'd love to run for state office but people don't always like to hear the truth and that's all I'm interested in.

 

[Multifaceted]

I really hate the whole conservative/liberal labels. It's like you have to choose a side. I can tell you right now that I'm in the middle. Some stuff should change, other stuff shouldn't. That being said, I think we should really increase punishments for those who commit crimes with guns. Banning TYPES of guns will never stop people from trying to find them outside the confines of the laws. Gangs are sometimes found in possession of fully automatic firearms. I've never even touched one!

There's no reason to hate it, hate is such a strong word. One thing to understand is that they are more or less monikers in common use of their time, since both do not accurately represent their respective meanings or definitions.

Liberal is an innately kind word, in that it is a way of thought or philosophy founded on liberty, equality, and natural rights. It has evolved a secondary definition to mean generous or giving, and has deviated into it's tertiary or bastardized definition of rule of democracy, or rule of popular opinion. Most "liberal" policies enacted and supported by "liberals" over the past thirty years are for all intents and purposes; illiberal. Any "liberal" today is hardly deserving of the word to describe their worldview, let alone a proponent.

Conservative is more transitory, and has a root word of conserve. In the revolutionary days of the American birth, the conservatives were the Tories — the sympathizers to the Crown. They wanted to conserve the traditions of the English Common Law in accordance with the Divine Right of Kings. They didn't particularly want a new country independent of the Crown, per se. However, there were some collaborationist, like Alexander Hamilton, for example who sought to promote a strong central government model after independence was declared in the early days.

Today, conservative means to conserve the old ways of America, the one that was fought and founded by our liberal thinking forefathers. The War Between States and the ensuing Reconstruction Period drastically changed America from what it was before, and the monikers of people's views changed with it. Anyone older than I can attest that the Democrats of 80-100 years ago were more closely aligned with the conservatives of today. They're just monikers, you are either for liberty and freedom, or you are for the State. Plain and simple.

 

[splfd]

We are at point in time where we have to choose sides. The time for fence sitting is over.

This is why I think we are going to be in trouble in 2014. The limp noodle syndrome has begun.

After the Annapolaas pounding the pro-gunners took, everybody had their ass hairs in a knot. It's gone from "I'm going to do what ever it takes to get my rights back", to "I'm not sure how I feel right now. I mean, I really like Rainbows and I'm in favor of Unicorn ownership".

ENOUGH is ENOUGH because you ain't gunna get it both ways. You can't have your AR-15 and your Unicorn too.

Either you're a pro-gun freak who is in it for the long haul or you are not.

Stop worrying about "criminal control". We tried that in Annapolis and it got us no where. Those who are anti-gun sure as hell ain't anti-criminal. It's not about crime. It's about keeping their voter base intact.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you really do have to choose a side and a position and you have to stay the course.

Sorry!

Actually, you're just a bit wrong but in a good way. I LIKE hearing/ reading exactly what you wrote because it is the dam truth. How often did we receive mailings from the NRA speaking about politicians infringing on our 2A rights? How often did we take those notices and throw them in the round file? Who is to blame for all of the anti-gun sentiment? Adam Lanza? Hardly.... Newtown was just the event that gave the momentum to push the liberal agenda. Seriously, if we don't keep up the heat now, the next Newtown will be that much worse. We were a day late and a dollar short in Annapolis. I think the majority of the people here know this.

By the way, I am just as guilty as everyone else. Once I became a life member of the NRA (10 years ago) I started throwing away all of the notices, now I read each one carefully and get angry. Every time I get angry, I sign up someone else up in my family for life membership.

Everything has changed and the libs have momentum, popularity and powerful people in the right places. As you mentioned, we need to keep the fires burning and unite.

 

[tapeman1]

I KNOW RIGHT?! I'm in GB til the end of May then I'm moving to Baltimore. You ever go to the Severna Park Taphouse?

That place is awesome! Their BLT is EPIC!!!