What did you learn at your Wear & Carry training class that you didn't know before attending?

[AlBeight]

I include it in my "class".

Does that stack of “funny money” 100’s help with the ladies too? Asking for a friend.

 

[Stoveman]

Does that stack of “funny money” 100’s help with the ladies too? Asking for a friend.

Only when it's stuck in his pants....

 

[Threeband]

My understanding is that Duty to Retreat only applies if there is a clear path to retreat safely, and you are aware of that escape route and capable of taking advantage of it.

If you are on the ground getting your head beaten in by a lead pipe, you have no duty to retreat.

 

[Mark75H]

I mentioned a decoy wallet to a city police sargent, his comment was "In the city, they'll take the decoy and shoot you anyway"

 

[ADR]

My understanding is that Duty to Retreat only applies if there is a clear path to retreat safely, and you are aware of that escape route and capable of taking advantage of it.

If you are on the ground getting your head beaten in by a lead pipe, you have no duty to retreat.

Exactly the point. Force is not justified by location, it's justified by the event(s) you're facing. There's no such thing as "I have to accept serious bodily injury or death because I happened to be attacked outside of my house".

People confuse defending one's self in a spontaneous, unplanned event with leaving the relative safety of your house to purposefully confront someone. (Two different things.)

 

[jrumann59]

You do not have to retreat when in your house but do when in your yard?

Bullshite if someone pulls a gun or knife in my yard and is intent on using the threat ends where they stand.

 

[Tower43]

What's strange, is I can't find an actual statute on forced retreat in the state.

 

[RoadDawg]

I mentioned a decoy wallet to a city police sargent, his comment was "In the city, they'll take the decoy and shoot you anyway"

And some times they get real pizzed about that dummy wallet, with the funny money. And come looking for you later. If you’re going to carry a dummy, make it a Walmart or Target special, put a 5 and a few 1s in it. Real money, not fake. Get a couple fake cards with your picture, a fake name, and an address in another town.

Bon jour

 

[lazarus]

You should have asked him - If I'm on the ground in my yard getting my head beat in by a lead pipe, I have to somehow make it inside before I can defend myself?

Duty to retreat means you are required to, if you safely can. If someone is coming at you with a pipe, you likely can’t safely retreat. If someone is standing around threatening you with said pipe, you have a duty to put some distance between the two of you if you reasonably can.

Basically you are in charge of de-escalating and/or removing yourself from the situation. If you cannot, that’s on the other person at that point, not you.

Someone chases you down the street with a knife you don’t have to run for 38 miles until you lose them or they pounce on you. Some angry guy threatens you and starts getting out of their car on the street and you are in your yard, yeah, you’ve got the duty to try to remove yourself from the situation.

In general, yes. If you are not in your dwelling or a dwelling you have to right to be in, you have a duty to retreat in Maryland. But that means you have a safe avenue and ability to. Someone comes at you in your shed or barn, you probably don’t have a safe path to retreat. Your yard you probably do if they aren’t rushing you. And it also means meet force with force. You’ll have a hard argument if some 5’4” 140lbs teen is getting aggressive and pushes you or even takes a swing at you and you’re 240lbs and 6’4” and you shoot them if they didn’t have a weapon or were somehow not about to overpower you.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by…

I am sure you’ve heard it. Just better be real sure the later is the likely outcome first or you will for sure be judged by 12 and probably convicted.

PS but yeah, in your dwelling or a dwelling you have a legal right to be in, you have no duty to retreat. But the person also needs to be inside your dwelling (as in don’t shoot through windows or doors or shoot out of windows or doorways).

 

[lazarus]

What's strange, is I can't find an actual statute on forced retreat in the state.

Wikipedia does a great job covering it. Maryland mostly has common law and case law to govern the right of self defense. Limited statute.

Right of self-defense in Maryland - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Of note from Crawford vs MD (as cited in the article)

It is also essential that killing is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony in question. If other methods could prevent its commission, a homicide is not justified; all other means of preventing the crime must first be exhausted.

So even with castle doctrine, you need to make pretty sure there is no lesser means of force or action that could have resolved the situation. Surprise a burglar in your kitchen and witness state you drew and shot them without bothering to even tell the person to leave, or if they were retreating from you, etc. well, first, do NOT invite those friends to your next cookout. Second, you are probably getting charged with murder or manslaughter.

Someone breaks in, verbally warn them off. Don’t try to “surprise” them.

 

[lazarus]

Bullshite if someone pulls a gun or knife in my yard and is intent on using the threat ends where they stand.

See ADR’s response above. That’s what it means. Stand your ground laws effectively mean, someone is being aggressive towards you, you have no duty to leave and if you feel your life may reasonably be threatened you can use deadly force.

Duty to retreat means if you have a reasonable means to leave or deescalate you must. Going out in your yard where a guy has a visible weapon puts yourself in a position where a reasonable person would think they might have to resort to deadly force to protect themself. You’ll probably be facing manslaughter if you do that then. Stand your ground states you probably won’t as you have a right to be there.

Out in your yard already, could you probably get inside and lock the door behind you and call the police? That’s what you need to do. Chancy you’d make it, you have no duty to put yourself in greater danger by trying to get away.

Someone trying o break in to your car, you don’t have to cower. You can go confront them. But if it looks they are armed, you have a duty to not put yourself in possible mortal danger.

Per Crawford

It is a justifiable homicide to kill to prevent the commission of a felony by force or surprise.

The crimes in prevention of which life may be taken are such and only such as are committed by forcible means, violence, and surprise, such as murder, robbery, burglary, rape, or arson.

It is also essential that killing is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony in question. If other methods could prevent its commission, a homicide is not justified; all other means of preventing the crime must first be exhausted.[5]

 

[Blaster229]

And some times they get real pizzed about that dummy wallet, with the funny money. And come looking for you later. If you’re going to carry a dummy, make it a Walmart or Target special, put a 5 and a few 1s in it. Real money, not fake. Get a couple fake cards with your picture, a fake name, and an address in another town.

Bon jour

Because this is what you do? Or you've handled so many calls and reports of this also? Must be hundreds of people out there with fake throw down money being retaliated against for it to be a thing.

How do the thugs find their victims later on?

 

[RoadDawg]

Because this is what you do? Or you've handled so many calls and reports of this also? Must be hundreds of people out there with fake throw down money being retaliated against for it to be a thing.

How do the thugs find their victims later on?

Do you in some way feel threatened by other people’s opinions and experience?
Why must so many of your comments include some attempt to belittle those with whom you disagree?

I never question your base of knowledge, nor your experience. Nor do I attempt to diminish any things you’ve done to help others here.

Yet you constantly make comments and pose questions about my experience. I’m too old, been retired to long, only buy hamburgers on President’s Day, and should limit my posting time to only late night hours… according to you. And now you want to question my experiences and the calls I’ve handled, as if again, what I said just must not be valid. How did you say it to me? Oh yeah… “…if you ever even were a cop.”

So my opinions and experience are to be seen as having no value. Why don’t I just stfu and go away so you can have the floor all to your self. Right?

I’ve extended the olive branch on several occasions. Why the animosity? It’s not necessary. It’s rude. And it clutters up threads which could otherwise be providing help and information for those who may need it.

My experience is not in question. There are other MDS members who’ve worked with me on the streets and in special assignments for two and a half decades in one LEA. They know the truth. If you need to question anyone, question your self.

Otherwise, please stay on the thread topic.

I am not the thread topic.

Have a nice day.


My apologies to other members… enough is enough.

 

[Blaster229]

There are other members here who have worked with you for over 20 years?
They know the truth about what?
I just asked if you yourself made a throw down wallet.
And wanted to hear more about the thug retaliation stories.
You make these episodes seem like an everyday occurrence.

 

[RoadDawg]

There are other members here who have worked with you for over 20 years?
They know the truth about what?
1)I just asked if you yourself made a throw down wallet.
And wanted to hear more about the thug retaliation stories.
2)You make these episodes seem like an everyday occurrence.

1) That’s not how it reads.
2) Kindly point out where I said that.

 

[American Defender]

So I had this argument with my buddy, his W&C class instructor stated that it's illegal to have a weapon stored in a firearms safe in your vehicle. I pulled all relevant firearms statues from Justia Law, and cannot find that statement anywhere.
The thing is, I plan on having a safe box "witht he stupid cable" in my car, for instances when I need to go to say, the post office, or a govt building etc. At that point I intend to unload and store safely.
I also intend to do the same when I go to and from work, as I am not going to be carrying a gun on fire apparatus (despite there being NO current rule to the contrary.. oddly enough for MoCo)
Pretty sure a locked car + locked safe = enough defense against stolen to not be held liable, not like I'm gonna keep it openly sitting on the seat in an unlocked car ffs

First, this has been a good thread and I appreciate the comments.
Second, the vehicle storage aspect-I had issues with the way the MDSP website really skirted this issue with decent specificity. I have a LEOSA, and for some reason, carrying as a civilian is different for me (worry about printing, all the stuff I've been reading in this thread). I asked the MDSP this exact question, well prior to the SCOTUS decision, since my RAM actually has a OEM solid vault in console. I was not l looking for permanent storage, just if you're out-and-about, and need to go inside a building that carry is forbidden by the owner (or a government building), and you need to remove the firearm from your person while inside such an establishment. I never did get an answer. Maybe with the new carrying population they may get around to answering it as the MD law is anything but clear and I suspect the carrying console prohibition likely stems from a time where vehicular vaults installed by the factory were not common.

To me, it makes sense. Better solution than the cable boxes. Just want to follow the rules as best I can.

 

[ADR]

Duty to retreat means you are required to, if you safely can. If someone is coming at you with a pipe, you likely can’t safely retreat. If someone is standing around threatening you with said pipe, you have a duty to put some distance between the two of you if you reasonably can.

Basically you are in charge of de-escalating and/or removing yourself from the situation. If you cannot, that’s on the other person at that point, not you.

Someone chases you down the street with a knife you don’t have to run for 38 miles until you lose them or they pounce on you. Some angry guy threatens you and starts getting out of their car on the street and you are in your yard, yeah, you’ve got the duty to try to remove yourself from the situation.

In general, yes. If you are not in your dwelling or a dwelling you have to right to be in, you have a duty to retreat in Maryland. But that means you have a safe avenue and ability to. Someone comes at you in your shed or barn, you probably don’t have a safe path to retreat. Your yard you probably do if they aren’t rushing you. And it also means meet force with force. You’ll have a hard argument if some 5’4” 140lbs teen is getting aggressive and pushes you or even takes a swing at you and you’re 240lbs and 6’4” and you shoot them if they didn’t have a weapon or were somehow not about to overpower you.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by…

I am sure you’ve heard it. Just better be real sure the later is the likely outcome first or you will for sure be judged by 12 and probably convicted.

PS but yeah, in your dwelling or a dwelling you have a legal right to be in, you have no duty to retreat. But the person also needs to be inside your dwelling (as in don’t shoot through windows or doors or shoot out of windows or doorways).

Umm yeah, you could say I'm familiar with all of that. I'm a police sergeant who teaches use of force to new recruits, have assisted in writing UOF policy, and have investigated UOF incidents.

 

[Stoveman]

First, this has been a good thread and I appreciate the comments.
Second, the vehicle storage aspect-I had issues with the way the MDSP website really skirted this issue with decent specificity. I have a LEOSA, and for some reason, carrying as a civilian is different for me (worry about printing, all the stuff I've been reading in this thread). I asked the MDSP this exact question, well prior to the SCOTUS decision, since my RAM actually has a OEM solid vault in console. I was not l looking for permanent storage, just if you're out-and-about, and need to go inside a building that carry is forbidden by the owner (or a government building), and you need to remove the firearm from your person while inside such an establishment. I never did get an answer. Maybe with the new carrying population they may get around to answering it as the MD law is anything but clear and I suspect the carrying console prohibition likely stems from a time where vehicular vaults installed by the factory were not common.

To me, it makes sense. Better solution than the cable boxes. Just want to follow the rules as best I can.

Why would you worry about printing?

 

[Blacksmith101]

Your shed has a sliding glass door? Showoff.

My two story shed has a sliding glass door on the upper level.

 

[Blaster229]

Why would you worry about printing?

Because that's how you properly conceal carry. It fits into some people's self defense plan.