VICTORY IN PALMER!!!!

[Brooklyn]

This is where it gets scary, and I agree with KCBrown that today it'll be may(no) issue. If we happen to get that overturned, the next time it'll be 2000$ permit fees, then it'll be some other nonsense that the DC Council comes up with. They could endlessly come up with a new burdensome regulation until its challenged and struck down in court or until the judiciary has had enough and the special master comes in to play (but IIRC this is EXTREMELY rare).

Now, on a side note, since DC had may-issue right before Heller, and didn't issue permits for years (and admits so), will Scullin perhaps say no way Jose?

Standard of review... this is all pregame show.

Once scotus sets the standard this gets settled. Scotus wants to avoid a Brown... its Roberts main goal...get there slowly so their is no shock or push back.

I think its going too slow. But we will.get there... but the longer it takes the less likely it could be reversed later.

Permits objective standards justifiable fees even upper bound on processing time..


Consider that the Md hql has a 30 time limit for issuance.... I take that as s concession that they know the court will imposed some limits....

 

[esqappellate]

T


As for future efforts, I think it comes down to how hard we the community press for real action.

Our community needs to press, and be smart about the press. If I see Congresscritters writing major legislation- a FOPA-III, or something like that - I am going to be disappointed. Anything like that gets filibustered and vetoed. If I see a huge bill like that, then I know the GOP is just playing us as fools and peasants.

No, we need to be smart about our demands. We need incremental amendments on must-pass bills. The Continuing Resultion they just passed will only get us through mid-December, and the next CR after that will likely get us to Feb. There are a lot of "must-pass" funding bills for programs the President and the Dems desire. Slipping a DC fix, National Reciprocity or even what I hear being called the "Glenn Reynolds Rule"* would be the way to move forward. There would be gnashing of teeth, just when they attached guns in national parks and in Amtrak luggage to a credit card bill. But it passed, and remains law to this day. Neither will be overturned in the current political environment.

I was hopeful that we'd see these smart amendments to key Obama-desired bills, but then two weeks ago heard Paul Ryan tell Obama to "warm up his veto pen." Ryan saud they were going to use legislation to highlight the differences between the parties as a warm-up to 2016.

My heart sank. I used to like the guy. This is not a game to us - whether guns, the budget, the economy or whatever. This is real stuff for real people. We don't need Headline-inducing bills that allow the GOP and Dems to make clear choices that divide the land further. We need smart amendments and nuanced changes to murky bills that affect us in real ways.


* The Glenn Reynolds Rule: Congress uses federal supremacy to mandate that non-violent violations of carry or possession laws throughout the nation are subject only to a civil fine of no more than $500 and no criminal charges. He originally proposed this before Shaneen Allen got arrested in NJ, and I doubt he'd mind if we called it "Shaneen's Law".

Amen. It is better to win something than lose everything. I'll rather leave the martyrdom to the jihadists. Winning is important. Yesterday's wins are the building blocks for tomorrow's wins. It is how it is done.

 

[Brooklyn]

I think a trip to Washington as a group to lobby is not out of the question..

Ryan has either a bright future in politics or he is young enough to move on... . But I am Willing to hear him out.

For example the public posturing may be just that.. posturing.. and maybe a lesser agenda could also be in the works..


Ryan needs to hear from us that no results at all may lead us to stay home on election day knowing that sometimes full collapse is a necessary part of reform

MSI lobby day in DC?? Maybe as part of a national event?

 

[fightinbluhen51]

I think a trip to Washington as a group to lobby is not out of the question..

Ryan has either a bright future in politics or he is young enough to move on... . But I am Willing to hear him out.

For example the public posturing may be just that.. posturing.. and maybe a lesser agenda could also be in the works..


Ryan needs to hear from us that no results at all may lead us to stay home on election day knowing that sometimes full collapse is a necessary part of reform

MSI lobby day in DC?? Maybe as part of a national event?

I used to believe in him, but after he ran with Mitters, he has suddenly turned a lot more big gov kinda of guy. Hell, even his budgets are big gov.

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[Brooklyn]

I used to believe in him, but after he ran with Mitters, he has suddenly turned a lot more big gov kinda of guy. Hell, even his budgets are big gov.

Thanks, but no thanks.

And this is why we lose. Politics is the art of the possible. Politians are not objects of religious belief. They are men and women that we must lobby to get our agenda passed.

Op force will do it. We will just hold our breath till we turn blue or get our way....

We lose.

 

[Bob A]

Politics is the art of the possible. Politians are not objects of religious belief. They are men and women that we must lobby to get our agenda passed.

This ^^^.

Buckley had it right, when he recommended voting for the most conservative candidate who had a chance to win. Tilting at windmills may make you feel righteous, but the result does not reflect the effort, nor the sentiment involved.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

And this is why we lose. Politics is the art of the possible. Politians are not objects of religious belief. They are men and women that we must lobby to get our agenda passed.

Op force will do it. We will just hold our breath till we turn blue or get our way....

We lose.

Yeah, I get that, and have voted accordingly. I'm just a bit disgusted lately because my eyes are awaken to the fact that both parties bosses tend to be nearly the same. The GOP is entrenched and wants to defend their special interests, while the Dems will do anything they can to stay in power and change our country's charter through buying of votes. Damned the torps because the subjects don't know like we do. Evidence of the latest round to arm the "non-extremist" Muslim of the Month Club member. Bread and Circuses. Ryan's budget is nothing more than that; coupled with his more recent pliability towards amnesty, yeah, I'm less than thrilled.

I'd be all for lobbying someone that won't sell my country's sole down the river for whatever personal or buddy benefit he is getting.

This ^^^.

Buckley had it right, when he recommended voting for the most conservative candidate who had a chance to win. Tilting at windmills may make you feel righteous, but the result does not reflect the effort, nor the sentiment involved.

Yeah, I do that every time out, double fold in the primary. Generally though, when you're choices are between Mitters, Newt, Ron Paul (last cycle), what are you left voting for? The answer, more big gov . Buckley has made pretty pennies off of his think-tanks efforts to, but I get where he is coming from. His intentions are probably a bit better than those in power.

Sorry, I'm just a grouch arsehole today.

 

[press1280]

Proposed legislation: http://www.dccouncil.us/files/user_... a Pistol Temporary Amendment Act of 2014.pdf

Can you say minefield?

 

[Peaceful John]

And this is why we lose. Politics is the art of the possible. Politians are not objects of religious belief. They are men and women that we must lobby to get our agenda passed.

Op force will do it. We will just hold our breath till we turn blue or get our way....

We lose.

Thanks, but in my opinion our road ahead continues to be through the courts. "I'll see your election and raise you one stare decisis."

I'll leave lobbying politicians to younger people who have not yet lost hope. (No offense to OP intended.)

 

[redeemed.man]

Proposed legislation: http://www.dccouncil.us/files/user_... a Pistol Temporary Amendment Act of 2014.pdf

Can you say minefield?

Wow, WTF? That is a depressing read. Didn't see a fee listed anywhere. Minefield is a good term for it. Thanks for posting it. Maybe I won't expand my business into DC after all.

 

[swinokur]

Yep, they are following the MD/NJ/Chicago playbook for now.

 

[Mr H]

I've said all along they would make it as cumbersome and unwieldy as possible.

I feel they'll try to eventually settle on the same model they use for the registration process.

Fifth Friday in February, in an undisclosed location, for an exorbitant fee, with impossible to complete training.

 

[Brooklyn]

Thanks, but in my opinion our road ahead continues to be through the courts. "I'll see your election and raise you one stare decisis."

I'll leave lobbying politicians to younger people who have not yet lost hope. (No offense to OP intended.)

The courts will not get us all the way there.. even ss will leave a lot of room for mischievous law. Think affirmative defense...
Moreover the court will likely turn while this is in play.

In any case the court will not do all the lifting. Roberts will duck until he thinks its safe.. we need to show that this has public support.
.

We need public opinion, congress and the court.

 

[Afrikeber]

Proposed legislation: http://www.dccouncil.us/files/user_... a Pistol Temporary Amendment Act of 2014.pdf

Can you say minefield?

An obvious set up for failure. I would need a special app on my iphone with GPS to monitor my movement and warn me at every step where I'm about to become a felon due to this obvious tactic to criminalize law abiding citizens practicing their right to carry.

 

[Deep Thought]

An obvious set up for failure. I would need a special app on my iphone with GPS to monitor my movement and warn me at every step where I'm about to become a felon due to this obvious tactic to criminalize law abiding citizens practicing their right to carry.

And those of us without iphones have no chance at all. Or did DC make those mandatory too?

 

[press1280]

Wow, WTF? That is a depressing read. Didn't see a fee listed anywhere. Minefield is a good term for it. Thanks for posting it. Maybe I won't expand my business into DC after all.

I should have re-phrased. It's a minefield provided you even get the permit at all.

"if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to his or her person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol"
How vague is that?

 

[redeemed.man]

I should have re-phrased. It's a minefield provided you even get the permit at all.

"if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to his or her person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol"
How vague is that?

About as vague as the MD statute. I have a MD permit as a business owner. I would only apply in DC if I expand my business there.

 

[press1280]

About as vague as the MD statute. I have a MD permit as a business owner. I would only apply in DC if I expand my business there.

Wonder if that could be voided strictly for vagueness?

Also noticed the makeup of the Permit Board. Several attorney/judges, along with mayor appointments. Somewhat interesting, considering the DC Superior chief judge was appointed by Bush 41. Also, not to mention some of the Board members would essentially be having this position thrust upon them (although they can in turn nominate someone else).
I just hope Scullin doesn't let this happen and only allows the Board for true gray area review (misdemeanor convictions years ago,exc.).

 

[TxAggie]

Amen. It is better to win something than lose everything. I'll rather leave the martyrdom to the jihadists. Winning is important. Yesterday's wins are the building blocks for tomorrow's wins. It is how it is done.

This is exactly the game the Libs have been playing for decades: incrementalism.

 

[danb]

Proposed legislation: http://www.dccouncil.us/files/user_... a Pistol Temporary Amendment Act of 2014.pdf

Can you say minefield?

disappointing, but not at all surprising. Now that even DC has conceded there is a right outside the home, SCT cannot take a may-issue case fast enough.