Victory in MSI HQL suit

[dblas]

Speaking of that 2013 date (unless I missed it), the opinion didn't reference why that law was adopted in the first place. Another missed opportunity to make MD explain why, pre-2013, no such thing was required.

Not a part of the lawsuit. Their answer would have been what it was back then, to reduce the prevalence of criminals getting guns.

 

[F5guy]

If we are still talking about raising money for MSI one of the easiest things to do would be to have auto renewal on memberships. I had our credit card processor at church write a script for this on our payment page and it has helped tremendously because people forget and go away. It’s much harder to make a call to cancel.


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[Sundazes]

If we are still talking about raising money for MSI one of the easiest things to do would be to have auto renewal on memberships. I had our credit card processor at church write a script for this on our payment page and it has helped tremendously because people forget and go away. It’s much harder to make a call to cancel.


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I said tht this morning in the MSI thread. I have asked about it before with no answer.

 

[Mike1690]

It may have been mentioned but the dissenting judge referred to sending the case back to the district court to re-analyze under the Bruen precedent. There does seem to be a chance this gets en banced if for nothing more then to do just that and "push around pieces of paper" and waste some time.
I don't see an en banc taking this opinion head on and finding for MD on the merits although the 4th is pretty heavily Dem-appointed and anti gun. J Harvie Wilkinson (Reagan appointee) is no 2A friend either.

I’ve been wondering the same thing. Could the en banc panel send it back to the district court? Seems like the new tactic is for the anti gun circuits to delay 2A cases as long as possible in hopes of the SCOTUS. flipping back.

 

[swinokur]

I said tht this morning in the MSI thread. I have asked about it before with no answer.

Send Katy (treasurer) a note and ask her

 

[pre64hunter]

The NRA is in Annapolis every year fighting the MGA antigun attempts. They coordinate with MSI and other groups. They contribute time and money. Could they do more? Hell yes... just like they could do less.

Their support has increased as the number of Marylanders willing to fight for their Rights has increased. We are still behind states like VA in this regard. We need more people to step up and join the fight in Annapolis every year. The more we can bring to the fight, the more outside support we will get.


.

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yes, sometimes I feel like MD is the redheaded stepchild to the NRA. They pump more money into states where they can win. I started channeling more of my donations to MSI instead of the NRA. The NRA has its share a negativity but if not for them we'd been disarmed many years ago. The NRA does sponsor many shooting programs though as well as the Hunter Safety Training.

 

[Clovis]

Speaking of that 2013 date (unless I missed it), the opinion didn't reference why that law was adopted in the first place. Another missed opportunity to make MD explain why, pre-2013, no such thing was required.

Yes adding 30 days on top of the 7 day wait made no sense especially when there were already handguns in your home and you were just getting another. A 7 day wait for a background check back in the day when I bought my first handgun ('75) made some sense since the application had to be mailed to the MSP and then mailed back to the gun shop so they could be sure you were not a bad guy, but that was then and now it could be done without the wait but that wouldn't deter folks who may not put up with the non-sense.
'13 was a package to try to get conservative gun-owners to leave the state, reduce opposition to democrat party ideas and hopefully give O'Mally a leg up for the White House.

 

[rseymorejr]

Yes adding 30 days on top of the 7 day wait made no sense especially when there were already handguns in your home and you were just getting another. A 7 day wait for a background check back in the day when I bought my first handgun ('75) made some sense since the application had to be mailed to the MSP and then mailed back to the gun shop so they could be sure you were not a bad guy, but that was then and now it could be done without the wait but that wouldn't deter folks who may not put up with the non-sense.
'13 was a package to try to get conservative gun-owners to leave the state, reduce opposition to democrat party ideas and hopefully give O'Mally a leg up for the White House.

Didn't work out exactly as he had hoped.

 

[emerald]

I always thought the big justification for the 7 day wait was a "cooling off" period to keep a hot head from buying a gun in a rage and then going out and shooting someone.

 

[Art3]

I always thought the big justification for the 7 day wait was a "cooling off" period to keep a hot head from buying a gun in a rage and then going out and shooting someone.

For when the loaded handgun on my hip when I'm filling out the paperwork...or any of them already in my safe just won't do!

 

[Bob A]

Didn't work out exactly as he had hoped. View attachment 442105

Always a classic, thanks for the reminder.

@Clovis, the 2013 bill's primary mission was to support O'Malley's campaign. The influence and political capital he exerted on the GA was surprising in its forcefulness, as I seem to recall; nearly as resounding as his subsequent failure as a POTUS candidate.

I'm reminded of one of his out-of-state campaign stops, where he found one (1) person in attendance to hear what he had to say. After an hour or so, when O'M had departed, the lone attendee was asked if he'd vote for O'M. He was noncommittal.

Outside of the GA, O'Malley's salesmanship was pretty much limited to selling Baltimore on the idea that he'd be a good mayor. Fortunately, he had the charmed "D" after his name; the letter closed the sale.

In Maryland, you don't need no stinkin platform; the magic letter is enough. The road signs tell the tale, reminding every voter who can read to "Vote for the Democrats." For the rest, "D" is enough.

 

[1time]

Not sure, but like everything else, it will probably go all the way to the Supreme Court. This is why we need to get Brandon out of the White House next year.

No mean tweets are more important. Never Trump or Only Trump. Either way, a large percentage of base won’t vote and will guarantee 4 more years of bobble head.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I always thought the big justification for the 7 day wait was a "cooling off" period to keep a hot head from buying a gun in a rage and then going out and shooting someone.

Yes , this !

Go read the Bill File , all the contemporary news accounts , and public debate from 1966 , and it was all about Cooling Off Period . The background checking was a minor footnote , if mentioned at all .

This wasn't in a Vacuum . This was the big coordinated push by the antigunners in the mid '60s , and right after this they moved on to Saturday Night Specials .

 

[Uncle Duke]

yes, sometimes I feel like MD is the redheaded stepchild to the NRA. They pump more money into states where they can win. I started channeling more of my donations to MSI instead of the NRA. The NRA has its share a negativity but if not for them we'd been disarmed many years ago. The NRA does sponsor many shooting programs though as well as the Hunter Safety Training.

Yes to all of your points.

As much as I wish it were otherwise, if I try to look at the NRA piece objectively? Look at the number of Maryland wear and carry permit owners. Compare that number to the number of MDS members. Then the number of MDS members who'd be considered active. Then compare those numbers to the number of MSI members.

Forget the exact numbers. The exact numbers don't matter. It isn't hard to see what's obvious directionally. Stair steps. Big ones!

For whatever reasons, there really isn't a whole lot of.....for lack of a better word perhaps ....truly demonstrable "enthusiasm" for 2A in Maryland. Even amongst most firearms owners. And surprisingly, that would seem to be a pattern that holds even amongst newly empowered and long disenfranchised and brand new carry permit owners.

Thoughts of Maryland outsiders like the NRA looking in? Those might understandably include "good money after bad", "pissing money away", "just as well burn it." Not pleasant thoughts. But if I'm thinking with my head, rather than thinking wishfully as a Maryland resident, I can see how those and similar thoughts could quite easily come to mind. Truth be told? Were I accountable for making the expenditure decisions at NRA, I'd need more than a little convincing myself, as to why I should dump a lot of money into Maryland.

There is one truly noteworthy thing though, and a comparatively recent development, that I think helps to give NRA and others pause with regard to Maryland. That is the fact that MSI, and MSI leadership in particular, is now truly a demonstrated and indeed a proven "little engine that could."

NRA will spend money, but NRA wants results. NRA wants to win. And in their position, especially given national perception as the alpha dog? The NRA NEEDS to win!

Entirely valid issues with NRA aside, and there are indeed many? I also want to try to be a realist. Gotti like dress suits, and the rampant cronyism aside, I can't hate NRA for doing what they should be doing. Even if they seem to do what they should be doing only sporadically. That is, when they carefully (if selectively) scrutinize where they expend finite resources? I can't hate them for that.

What's different? Something is indeed different. It is apparent that MSI leadership is astute enough, and experienced enough to command genuine attention. National Attention! Indeed, MSI can deliver wins! The sorts of wins that truly matter! And on a scale that many would think them incapable of delivering. Remarkably enough, MSI is a Maryland organization, and an organization with clout that truly belies their size. Hopefully, more firearms owners will spread the MSI story, and throw some funds behind these deserving folks. The MSI story is a truly remarkable story! Props their way, and I hope we'll spread the word, and contribute to this truly worthwhile organization. Theirs is one helluva story! If we can agree on nothing else, there surely haven't been many other more positive stories coming out of Maryland.

 

[emerald]

For when the loaded handgun on my hip when I'm filling out the paperwork...or any of them already in my safe just won't do!

Exactly! Or the machete, kitchen knives, baseball bat etc.

 

[emerald]

Yes , this !

Go read the Bill File , all the contemporary news accounts , and public debate from 1966 , and it was all about Cooling Off Period . The background checking was a minor footnote , if mentioned at all .

This wasn't in a Vacuum . This was the big coordinated push by the antigunners in the mid '60s , and right after this they moved on to Saturday Night Specials .

And, of course, it completely ignores a potential victim's right to defense.

 

[Biggfoot44]

And, of course, it completely ignores a potential victim's right to defense.

Yup , not even a factor .

Back in those days the Anti Gunner strategy was to cherry pick a handful of instances of someone buy a gun , walk out and same day shoot someone , or waste themselves .

Their ( often sucuessful ) pitch is if those buyers had a week or whatever for calm reflection , they no longer would be angry at the intended shoot- ee , or that life actually was a bowl of cherries , and worth living .

 

[dblas]

yes, sometimes I feel like MD is the redheaded stepchild to the NRA. They pump more money into states where they can win. I started channeling more of my donations to MSI instead of the NRA. The NRA has its share a negativity but if not for them we'd been disarmed many years ago. The NRA does sponsor many shooting programs though as well as the Hunter Safety Training.

For a long time we were, until about 2012 when we got a new NRA-ILA rep and she was a Maryland Native. Shannon busted her ass to make Maryland a priority in the NRA-ILA, and even got them to help sponsor several of the first lawsuits in 2013.

The NRA (membership and training side) still does a fair bit for training, and sponsoring youth programs and shooting competitions (through MSRPA), while the NRA-ILA has become a constant friend again, in Maryland.

 

[dblas]

Yes adding 30 days on top of the 7 day wait made no sense especially when there were already handguns in your home and you were just getting another. A 7 day wait for a background check back in the day when I bought my first handgun ('75) made some sense since the application had to be mailed to the MSP and then mailed back to the gun shop so they could be sure you were not a bad guy, but that was then and now it could be done without the wait but that wouldn't deter folks who may not put up with the non-sense.
'13 was a package to try to get conservative gun-owners to leave the state, reduce opposition to democrat party ideas and hopefully give O'Mally a leg up for the White House.

Vinny and his ilk said it would make Maryland, and specifically Baltimore, safer. I called him out on it when we went face to face on Capital Circle back in 2014. I wouldn't mind being invited back to revisit that conversation.

 

[dblas]

Yes to all of your points.

As much as I wish it were otherwise, if I try to look at the NRA piece objectively? Look at the number of Maryland wear and carry permit owners. Compare that number to the number of MDS members. Then the number of MDS members who'd be considered active. Then compare those numbers to the number of MSI members.

Forget the exact numbers. The exact numbers don't matter. It isn't hard to see what's obvious directionally. Stair steps. Big ones!

For whatever reasons, there really isn't a whole lot of.....for lack of a better word perhaps ....truly demonstrable "enthusiasm" for 2A in Maryland. Even amongst most firearms owners. And surprisingly, that would seem to be a pattern that holds even amongst newly empowered and long disenfranchised and brand new carry permit owners.

Thoughts of Maryland outsiders like the NRA looking in? Those might understandably include "good money after bad", "pissing money away", "just as well burn it." Not pleasant thoughts. But if I'm thinking with my head, rather than thinking wishfully as a Maryland resident, I can see how those and similar thoughts could quite easily come to mind. Truth be told? Were I accountable for making the expenditure decisions at NRA, I'd need more than a little convincing myself, as to why I should dump a lot of money into Maryland.

There is one truly noteworthy thing though, and a comparatively recent development, that I think helps to give NRA and others pause with regard to Maryland. That is the fact that MSI, and MSI leadership in particular, is now truly a demonstrated and indeed a proven "little engine that could."

NRA will spend money, but NRA wants results. NRA wants to win. And in their position, especially given national perception as the alpha dog? The NRA NEEDS to win!

Entirely valid issues with NRA aside, and there are indeed many? I also want to try to be a realist. Gotti like dress suits, and the rampant cronyism aside, I can't hate NRA for doing what they should be doing. Even if they seem to do what they should be doing only sporadically. That is, when they carefully (if selectively) scrutinize where they expend finite resources? I can't hate them for that.

What's different? Something is indeed different. It is apparent that MSI leadership is astute enough, and experienced enough to command genuine attention. National Attention! Indeed, MSI can deliver wins! The sorts of wins that truly matter! And on a scale that many would think them incapable of delivering. Remarkably enough, MSI is a Maryland organization, and an organization with clout that truly belies their size. Hopefully, more firearms owners will spread the MSI story, and throw some funds behind these deserving folks. The MSI story is a truly remarkable story! Props their way, and I hope we'll spread the word, and contribute to this truly worthwhile organization. Theirs is one helluva story! If we can agree on nothing else, there surely haven't been many other more positive stories coming out of Maryland.

Read my reply above to pre64hunter for my observations.