Tuning the Mosin M44

[Ponder_MD]

Ok, I put the trigger scale on the M44 last night. 5 lbs. I pulled it 5 times. CMP regulations call for no less than 4.5lbs. I definitely do not want a lighter trigger pull, I just want to take up the slack and clean up the break if possible.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Ok, I put the trigger scale on the M44 last night. 5 lbs. I pulled it 5 times. CMP regulations call for no less than 4.5lbs. I definitely do not want a lighter trigger pull, I just want to take up the slack and clean up the break if possible.

Just remember a trigger inspection used at a match during rifle quals is actually a weight.
Not a scale.
Your rifle will simply need to lift it from the ground or the floor of the trailer.
No one around here is likely to even use one.

 

[John from MD]

Just remember a trigger inspection used at a match during rifle quals is actually a weight.
Not a scale.
Your rifle will simply need to lift it from the ground or the floor of the trailer.
No one around here is likely to even use one.

I'm sure we have some Bullseye and NRA High Power shooters who still have their own weight sets.

 

[Ponder_MD]

Just remember a trigger inspection used at a match during rifle quals is actually a weight.
Not a scale.

Roger that. I'm not sweating CMP matches per se, I'm just using the CMP rule as a guide for the minimum safe trigger weight.

I used the M44 in a match at AAFG today. 185 out of 300. Not good but not unexpected. I do feel that the sights are finally correct. The main problem is the idiot behind the trigger. I also used 3 types of ammo during the match (dumb, yes.) I used Russian for my sighters and then Igman for slow and fast prone and then Czech silver tip for unsupported standing. The other guys made some jokes about how the guy to my right is very tan on his left side and kind of deaf now.

Slow prone was surprisingly good. Fast prone was less good and offhand was just terrible. All the shots were on the paper but too many outside of the scoring rings in the offhand. I had a 10 and an X in the slow prone phase.

What's next?

Tonight, I installed the spring washer under the sear and coil spring as the trigger return spring. This made the trigger feel much better than I expected. It's almost like a normal single stage. The pull still indicates 5lbs on the Wheeler scale.

I had installed an accurizing kit of shims and cloth a couple of years ago. Tonight I performed the dollar bill check and it failed in places so the barrel is touching wood, causing harmonics. I added another wrap of cloth and two shims. Now a dollar bill passes freely along the length of the barrel.

I do think the sights are finally right and I think that Igman is what the rifle wants. I'll do another bench test and see where we're at.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Slow prone was surprisingly good. Fast prone was less good and offhand was just terrible. All the shots were on the paper but too many outside of the scoring rings in the offhand. I had a 10 and an X in the slow prone phase.

Dont worry about your scores. Worry about getting some in the black a little more each time standing and you'll feel better about challenging yourself and your accomplishments and knowing your rifle. Use the invisible ammo dry firing off the range in your living room.
How many people do you think if you handed that rifle to could have done any better?
Probably not to awful many so I wouldn't be too hard on myself.
I'm pretty sure it didn't come equipped from the factory with the two scary thingy's that fold down at the front that hold it up for you.

 

[John from MD]

Roger that. I'm not sweating CMP matches per se, I'm just using the CMP rule as a guide for the minimum safe trigger weight.

I used the M44 in a match at AAFG today. 185 out of 300. Not good but not unexpected. I do feel that the sights are finally correct. The main problem is the idiot behind the trigger. I also used 3 types of ammo during the match (dumb, yes.) I used Russian for my sighters and then Igman for slow and fast prone and then Czech silver tip for unsupported standing. The other guys made some jokes about how the guy to my right is very tan on his left side and kind of deaf now.

Slow prone was surprisingly good. Fast prone was less good and offhand was just terrible. All the shots were on the paper but too many outside of the scoring rings in the offhand. I had a 10 and an X in the slow prone phase.

What's next?

Tonight, I installed the spring washer under the sear and coil spring as the trigger return spring. This made the trigger feel much better than I expected. It's almost like a normal single stage. The pull still indicates 5lbs on the Wheeler scale.

I had installed an accurizing kit of shims and cloth a couple of years ago. Tonight I performed the dollar bill check and it failed in places so the barrel is touching wood, causing harmonics. I added another wrap of cloth and two shims. Now a dollar bill passes freely along the length of the barrel.

I do think the sights are finally right and I think that Igman is what the rifle wants. I'll do another bench test and see where we're at.

Are you using a sling?

 

[Ponder_MD]

Are you using a sling?

Ah, the damned thing was on backwards so I was forced to use the hasty method instead of the loop. I've turned it around for next time.

 

[John from MD]

Ah, the damned thing was on backwards so I was forced to use the hasty method instead of the loop. I've turned it around for next time.

Good sling use will make a definite difference in your scores.

 

[Ponder_MD]

After installing the spring washer, return spring and more shims and cloth, here are the results of today's bench test. Since I disturbed so many things, I felt that it was necessary to try several types of ammo again to see if there were preferences.

Boy howdy, this thing now absolutely hates steel cased ammo. Czech silver tip (surplus, corrosive) fires consistently high and left. Russian (new, non corrosive) fires consistently low and left. PPU and Igman brass cased lands in the center diamond. I made no sight adjustments at all.

I shot a total of 4 targets but I'll just bore you with the last two. I ran out of staples so I scrounged a frame that had a mostly clear sight-in target (orange). I scratched out shots that aren't mine with black marker. 5 shots of Igman and 5 shots of PPU. I think the drift to the left was me, not the rifle or ammo.

This red target was the final target of the day. It's fairly self explanatory- the CZ group is Czech silver tip, RU is Russian and IG is Igman. No sight adjustments were made, I just kept slapping clips in and shooting at a calm, measured pace.

All targets where I shot Russian ammo are low and left like the one above. This is probably as good as I'm going to get short of getting into hand loads.

What say you?

 

[Trepang]

This thread just cost me $475.......
Nothing too special - nice condition but it is import stamped.

 

[Ponder_MD]

This thread just cost me $475.......
Nothing too special - nice condition but it is import stamped.
View attachment 441106

Lol, sorry about that. These rifles are powerful and ammo is half the cost of .30-06. The trick is getting them on target.

 

[willtill]

This thread just cost me $475.......
Nothing too special - nice condition but it is import stamped.
View attachment 441106

You will discover that your newly acquired M44 will shoot more accurately with the bayonet extended.

 

[Ponder_MD]

You will discover that your newly acquired M44 will shoot more accurately with the bayonet extended.

I tried that. It makes it worse. Shoots way high, doesn't seem to affect windage much.

I could zero in the rifle for steel cased ammo. Push the front sight more to the left and adjust the post but then it would be shooting high and right with brass cased ammo. If these adjustments could be done quickly and without tools, I wouldn't care but since it's a hassle, I'm just going to stick with ammo that I've proven, works.

Also, the Czech silver tip surplus cycles terribly. The cases deform after firing, making bolt operation difficult. New Russian steel ammo cycles reliably, at least.

 

[John from MD]

I tried that. It makes it worse. Shoots way high, doesn't seem to affect windage much.

I could zero in the rifle for steel cased ammo. Push the front sight more to the left and adjust the post but then it would be shooting high and right with brass cased ammo. If these adjustments could be done quickly and without tools, I wouldn't care but since it's a hassle, I'm just going to stick with ammo that I've proven, works.

Also, the Czech silver tip surplus cycles terribly. The cases deform after firing, making bolt operation difficult. New Russian steel ammo cycles reliably, at least.

You may be mis understanding the problem you are having. The symptoms that you are experiencing are usually due to a coating of lacquer that is applied to some Combloc ammunition. If you combine it with a rough chamber, it makes it hard to open the bolt.

If your steel cases are coming out deformed, that is a Red Flag indicating that the chamber is excessively worn. Can you explain the deformities that you are seeing?

 

[Ponder_MD]

Can you explain the deformities that you are seeing?

I can't "see" a deformity, I just suspect that something in the shape has changed because after firing, the bolt is very difficult to cycle. If you load this Czech ammo and then cycle the bolt without firing to eject the unfired bullet, the bolt cycles smoothly.

All other ammo cycles perfectly, even the Russian steel cased that is also lacquered.

Maybe the shape isn't changing but the cases are almost getting stuck? I do have a stuck case extractor for the Mosin for those rare cases. In any case, the Czech stuff shoots high and left and has pretty wide groups. I don't have a whole lot of it so I'm not concerned about making the rifle accept it.

 

[John from MD]

I can't "see" a deformity, I just suspect that something in the shape has changed because after firing, the bolt is very difficult to cycle. If you load this Czech ammo and then cycle the bolt without firing to eject the unfired bullet, the bolt cycles smoothly.

All other ammo cycles perfectly, even the Russian steel cased that is also lacquered.

Maybe the shape isn't changing but the cases are almost getting stuck? I do have a stuck case extractor for the Mosin for those rare cases. In any case, the Czech stuff shoots high and left and has pretty wide groups. I don't have a whole lot of it so I'm not concerned about making the rifle accept it.

If it is the Czech stuff with the dark green or gray cases, they seem to have more lacquer than others. I would chuck a .45 brush in a drill and run it in an out of the chamber a few times and then clean with acetone. That will take any build up out of the chamber.

 

[John from MD]

This website will be very helpful to you. Me and hundreds of others posted all sorts of MN information in it over the years.

https://www.gunboards.com/forums/the-collectors-forum-mosin-nagant-hq.3/

 

[Ponder_MD]

This website will be very helpful to you. Me and hundreds of others posted all sorts of MN information in it over the years.

https://www.gunboards.com/forums/the-collectors-forum-mosin-nagant-hq.3/

I do have an account there. I haven't looked at it in awhile. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Something else you can do if you like.
Is once you get all the widgets figured out is bed the barrel channel with one or more blocks of wood and use them for bearing surfaces.
Steel cased ammo just doesn’t have the same spring back qualities as brass. Even though it’s annealed during manufacturing
Availability for raw materials was the primary reasoning for its use. Its use was also closely evaluated by government arsenals here in our country just prior to WW II but found to be reliable enough for use, just not good enough for extraction especially during the transition to the semi auto rifle we developed here.

 

[Trepang]

Lol, sorry about that. These rifles are powerful and ammo is half the cost of .30-06. The trick is getting them on target.

No worries - that was a hole in my Russian collection, you just prodded me along a little..lol

Once the sling for the M44 and the ammo pouch for the SVT comes in, I'll have to do an updated WWII Russian group pic.