Tactical Response at it again. Dangerous and Unprofessional

[Kbroc2]

Some of the story sounds over exaggerated we also didn't throw them. We were told to Point at the target then before we were told to fire we were told to drop them.

 

[vgplayer]

I'm confused on the "drop your pistol" thing. Step on your pistol thing? As an instructor I taught retention of your weapon. As a combatant I never dropped my weapon. That's a good way to end up dead. I did 26 years and 4 combat deployments, maybe I'm just not "tactical "enough to understand all this cool stuff.

The point I have heard is that when an officer demands you drop the gun that is what you do. Any other movement even a look over your shoulder can be misinterpreted as an offensive move.

Stepping on pistol ok I don't see the point but I wasn't there. Maybe the instructor had a point they were trying to make.

 

[Blaster229]

Did we fire with people beyond 180 degree line yes, did we drop our pistols yes, did we break any cardinal safety rules no.

Why and why? I'd like to know their reasoning.

And yes, intentionally dropping your pistol means you gave up your weapon intentionally. Let's practice that. Practicing picking up a pistol is very easy to train while in your living room with a safe weapon.

 

[vgplayer]

Why and why? I'd like to know their reasoning.

And yes, intentionally dropping your pistol means you gave up your weapon intentionally. Let's practice that. Practicing picking up a pistol is very easy to train while in your living room with a safe weapon.

This is the correct response. Trying to understand their reason before coming to a conclusion.

 

[Neot]

If I did this on the line with any of my student's I'd be out the door faster than the gun could hit the ground. If the point is to show the abuse a gun will take, well there's a million videos that do that or unload the gun, dump some dirt on it, reload it and fire it. If the point was to practice dropping the gun when confronted by an officer, then you can use a dummy rubber training gun to get the same practice in.

Trying to make sense of this makes my head hurt because of all the stupid that this "drill" creates.

 

[Kbroc2]

The point I have heard is that when an officer demands you drop the gun that is what you do. Any other movement even a look over your shoulder can be misinterpreted as an offensive move.

And that it's a tool and is meant to be used as such, its not a safe queen that needs to be gently placed on a doily.

Is generally how I understood it.

 

[zoostation]

 

[Neot]

And that it's a tool and is meant to be used as such, its not a safe queen that needs to be gently placed on a doily.

Is generally how I understood it.

Okay I'll buy that for arguments sake, however, couldn't the same thing be achieved using an unloaded weapon or blue/red training gun?

 

[Blaster229]

Okay I'll buy that for arguments sake, however, couldn't the same thing be achieved using an unloaded weapon or blue/red training gun?

No, then it is not realistic.

 

[PJDiesel]

No, then it is not realistic.

Like the bullet through the side of someone's truck.

 

[lonzo]

I don't know how trustworthy that site is, but I do know that I take everything online with a grain of salt. Unless that site or any other site that can verified the person is who they said they are, then I will only believe the info so much. There is too much of the story left out, want proof, name names...but don't give me "I brought a Pepsi and went to a range where the instructor told me to drop it and he stomped on it and a Pepsi went off and hit a truck..." Sorry, but I'll still call it bs..till names are told and more proof
And no, I haven't or won't go back and check it. I read it the first time, thought it was dumb and now moved on

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zoostation]

If I did this on the line with any of my student's I'd be out the door faster than the gun could hit the ground. If the point is to show the abuse a gun will take, well there's a million videos that do that or unload the gun, dump some dirt on it, reload it and fire it. If the point was to practice dropping the gun when confronted by an officer, then you can use a dummy rubber training gun to get the same practice in.

Trying to make sense of this makes my head hurt because of all the stupid that this "drill" creates.

There is no making sense of it. Not even sure what it is supposed to teach since there is no way doing something a couple of times is going to create the reflexive memory to repeat it under stress. Practice dropping the gun a couple of hundred times when the cops show up and maybe it will start to take. Not sure who wants to do that with a live weapon. And if there is anyone who is, I'm sure as hell not going to be standing around on the same range with them while they do it. Plenty of modern and quality brand guns still go bang once in a great while when dropped. Nothing is foolproof.

 

[5.56blaster]

It just sound's stupid to me. As an instructor I worked with new folks in basic training, cops/OSI, Special Operations and six years at SOCJFCOM in Norfolk Va. It sounds stupid, very stupid. Really, really dumb. In fact if you dropped your weapon in my class I would have been upset with you. If you stepped on it I'd have been really pissed off. I see no point in it and cannot be convinced it has a reason.

 

[Mark75H]

I don't know how trustworthy that site is, but I do know that I take everything online with a grain of salt. Unless that site or any other site that can verified the person is who they said they are, then I will only believe the info so much. There is too much of the story left out, want proof, name names...but don't give me "I brought a Pepsi and went to a range where the instructor told me to drop it and he stomped on it and a Pepsi went off and hit a truck..." Sorry, but I'll still call it bs..till names are told and more proof
And no, I haven't or won't go back and check it. I read it the first time, thought it was dumb and now moved on

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its verified by a member claiming to be the president of the club operating the range where the incident occured. Calguns is a very trustworthy site ... its the MDShoothers of the west.

 

[Mark75H]

It just sound's stupid to me. As an instructor I worked with new folks in basic training, cops/OSI, Special Operations and six years at SOCJFCOM in Norfolk Va. It sounds stupid, very stupid. Really, really dumb. In fact if you dropped your weapon in my class I would have been upset with you. If you stepped on it I'd have been really pissed off. I see no point in it and cannot be convinced it has a reason.

The only reason is for theater. Too many "instructors" are more entertainer than instructor.

The reason guys like this thrive is the demand for entertainment vs instruction. People love to be entertained but hate to be told how to do things.

 

[zoostation]

The only reason is for theater. Too many "instructors" are more entertainer than instructor.

The reason guys like this thrive is the demand for entertainment vs instruction. People love to be entertained but hate to be told how to do things.

I had guy who was a drama queen at a class out in Minnesota. (It was not this company but a different one I should note. A little dinky one I had to go to for work, long story) Anyway, the guy was just downright abusive, a real *******, and I don't use that term lightly when it comes to instructors because I know how tough a job it can be, I've done it too.

I had the last laugh though. As part of this course it was customary to give the instructor the leftover ammo as a kind of tip if you will. Since most of us were flying out it wasn't worth the hassle of shipping it home anyway. I made the effort to go around to everyone and make sure all of their own leftover ammo instead went to the one student who was driving home. It was priceless to see douchebag's face when he walked into the range after we had cleaned up and look around for his ammo gift and try to be nonchalant when it wasn't there. I figure his screaming at me that "I could get the f*** out if I didn't like how they did things there" cost him about $800 in ammo. Fair trade. I was happy.

 

[BigSteve57]

The guy over at calguns is reporting it 2nd hand right?
I wouldn't have done that.
If it isn't true, or even if it's reported first hand and is exaggerated you're exposing yourself to a world of liability. Unfortunately.

 

[lx1x]

The guy over at calguns is reporting it 2nd hand right?
I wouldn't have done that.
If it isn't true, or even if it's reported first hand and is exaggerated you're exposing yourself to a world of liability. Unfortunately.

The fact that they will not be able to use the range again..

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=4253391

 

[PJDiesel]

The fact that they will not be able to use the range again..

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=4253391

Still not good enough,..... need more evidence. :p

 

[lx1x]

Still not good enough,..... need more evidence. :p

Hmm.

Oh.. How about.. It's not keanu Reeves training for a movie.