Special Session: SB21 Introduced

[CypherPunk]

I'm sure they will forgo the training requirement if someone needs the permit ASAP for imminent danger. Just like now, if circumstances are right they will issue you a permit the same day, and I bet they don't call your references.

So you suggest the MSP can simply reinterpret the law based on the current circumstances?!?

 

[jmcgonig]

I'm sure they will forgo the training requirement if someone needs the permit ASAP for imminent danger. Just like now, if circumstances are right they will issue you a permit the same day, and I bet they don't call your references.

Can one of you "nutcases" threaten me so I can get my permit tomorrow?

 

[teratos]

So you suggest the MSP can simply reinterpret the law based on the current circumstances?!?

They have been doing it for years. If there is a dire need for a permit such as personal protection, they will issue a permit within 24 hours.

It SHOULD be this way. If a woman's estranged husband has threatened her life, for example, she should have access to a means of protection without waiting 90 days. Provisions need to be made for an expedited process.

 

[dlmcbm]

Can one of you "nutcases" threaten me so I can get my permit tomorrow?

Why I auta............&*%$#$@%^^^&***()()()@@@!@#???>><<>"":"!!!!!!!

Will that work for ya? Hay I don't want to get in trouble.

 

[gmhowell]

On the topic of the list of banned areas, I would think that such a requirement could only be acceptable if the state would also impose a requirement on churches, schools, youth centers, etc., to the effect that they must provide a method by which said firearms can be safely secured.

Wait, let me get this straight. It's an unfair burden on businesses to pay 10 cents out of the profit on a pizza for healthcare. It's an attack on my rights to free assembly if my business is forced to let in gays, blacks, the disabled, and the Irish. Not being allowed to pump toxic waste and pollution into the environment kills business. But we are supposed to expect all of these areas to build and staff special gun storage areas and that's ok?

VA only prohibits alcohol consumption while CC as well

Consumption while OC is ok.

Go figure.

If a cop needs a drink, a cop needs a drink. They have a tough job. Why you hatin'?

So you suggest the MSP can simply reinterpret the law based on the current circumstances?!?

But of course they can.

More to the point, perhaps that section that refers to as yet unwritten exceptions can contain this. Or anything else. Not knowing the contents of it is my prime objection to this bill as written.

Who knows, maybe MD could be more or less 'shall issue', but those who have G&S can get extra rights. So while all animals are equal, as usual, some are more equal than others. For example, I guarantee there isn't a judge or legislator in this state who would ever be forced to step into a training class and 'waste' a weekend or two.

Given the number of 'minor' questions we are all finding with the bill, it's clear that the author of the bill doesn't know what he's doing and what is involved in gun use and ownership. Looks like some feel good tripe.

 

[Walter]

Walter, with all due respect, we may have to agree to disagree on this point. I am perfectly comfortable with the VA rule. I am not offering it, but I am not going to self-immolate over it if MD imposes the same rule as VA. BTW, NC has the same rule as would be imposed by SB21 -- no carrying at all in bars and that is far worse than VA. As to Ung, he was acquitted and good for him. Even a complete drunk is entitled to self defense -- he is just less able to pull it off successfully than he would have been if he had been cold sober.

Apologies for coming off as a dickhead. I was cranky earlier, but I'm better now

I don't agree with making it illegal to carry while consuming an alcoholic beverage because it's never been a problem in the states that DO allow it (PA, IA, GA, WA, etc). CCW holders tend to be very responsible people and have good enough judgement to drink reasonably and not get intoxicated/wasted while carrying. But like you said - we'll agree to disagree.

By the way Esq, I've never gotten a chance to thank you for all you do for us. I honestly don't know how you can answer questions day in and day out. So let me say thank you for keeping us dummies in the know about everything.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

They have been doing it for years. If there is a dire need for a permit such as personal protection, they will issue a permit within 24 hours.

It SHOULD be this way. If a woman's estranged husband has threatened her life, for example, she should have access to a means of protection without waiting 90 days. Provisions need to be made for an expedited process.

If they can do it for one in 24 hours, they should be able to do it for all in 24 hours.

 

[Mr H]

You folks in d7 have all the luck...

I just got this back from Del. Szeliga...

Thanks for emailing me about various 2nd Amendment Rights bill SB 21.

I support our 2nd Amendment Rights. I also support right to carry laws. I am an NRA member and a GOA member. I even participated in an NRA Women on Target program at the Marriottsville gun range in the fall with my kids and it was terrific. We are all looking forward to doing that again.

As you know, Maryland is a difficult state to get meaningful gun rights bills passed. We are most often playing defense in this state. You can count on me to support the good gun bills and oppose those targeted at stripping away any rights that we have.

I hope you will continue to communicate with me and call me if I can ever be of assistance to you and your family.

Sincerely yours,

Delegate Kathy Szeliga
District 7 - Baltimore & Harford County

 

[Kimerazor]

What I don't understand is why you would have to go through the training after every re-up of your license. Other than them wanting to place a "burden" on the person and more money out of your pocket

Because this is Maryland run by Liberal Anti-Gunners.

We cannot give an inch!

I've said it before, a captive locked up in a small cage will think he is in heaven when offered a larger cage.




NRA Life Member
SAF Life Member
GRRN Supporter

 

[Kimerazor]

Everyone needs to listen to Michael Bayne's Down Range Radio podcast #277 (08-08-12).


NRA Life Member
SAF Life Member
GRRN Supporter

 

[GNLaFrance]

You guys have it all backwards. Don't offer to give up ANY ground unless you absolutely have to.

This is what those who lecture us about demanding too much don't understand - anything short of total repeal will be taken advantage of and abused by the gun grabbers. We must be as extreme as they are.

 

[esqappellate]

Apologies for coming off as a dickhead. I was cranky earlier, but I'm better now

I don't agree with making it illegal to carry while consuming an alcoholic beverage because it's never been a problem in the states that DO allow it (PA, IA, GA, WA, etc). CCW holders tend to be very responsible people and have good enough judgement to drink reasonably and not get intoxicated/wasted while carrying. But like you said - we'll agree to disagree.

By the way Esq, I've never gotten a chance to thank you for all you do for us. I honestly don't know how you can answer questions day in and day out. So let me say thank you for keeping us dummies in the know about everything.

Thanks Walter: Plenty of room here for honest disagreement. And I completely agree that permit holders are the very epitome of law abiding, responsible people. What gets my goat isn't booze (I don't drink much), but gun free zones in general (like theaters, libraries, schools, colleges), where permit holders are disarmed. Utter nonsense - it just creates safe zones for crazies.

It is a pleasure for me to rub elbows with you guys. In whatever else we may disagree about, we all love the 2A.

 

[Lou45]

anyway, back on topic:
roll back some restrictions to something approaching common sense. codify specific training requirements. specify you only need training to get the license the first time and the training must be free and/or what training would suffice in its place. remove that language about "HAS NOT EXHIBITED ANY CONDUCT THAT INDICATES 3 THE PERSON IS POTENTIALLY A DANGER TO THE PUBLIC IF ISSUED A PERMIT." or make it more clear and specific, leaving less to discretion. pretty much, I suppose, what everyone else has already said.

If the "training" is to be done only by the MD gubment (as far as I can tell, SB21 potentially allowed outside specified training) such as by MSP, it must be done frequently and at varied places throughout the state to accomidate those that are required to have the "training". For the most part, if not all, the "need" to receive training again to renew one's permit is ludecrious.

DING!!!!

It's all about encumbering, then criminalizing.


Received another personal reply (this one from Del. Zucker)...

Sorry the Zucker reply didn't post here for the multi-quote, but it basically indicated a bunch of words that meant much of nothing.

I think the restuarant point is as lame as the bag tax,no matter what..some will just throw the bag on the ground which is why we have litter.Then I could just see metal detectors inside the door to our favorite places to eat.Just because a eatery sells drinks,a simple stamp or icon on your DL you would be denied a drink..beinging it carrying or not,or as you would a bar..be issued a colored wrist band.Maryland taxes restuarants as is and the smaller ones would fold due to lack of diners.If I'm wearing a short skirt with a thigh holster and see a "no guns" sign,I would think my money is not needed and find one that excepts legal ccw or just venture over to Virginia where my money is excepted.Maryland might not lose money in the restuarants since gambling is the new money cow since the red light and speed cameras are drying up.Other things in the SB bill only a bunch of no life wanks with nothing more than hopes they get re-elected to office would come up with.Maryland should look at other ccw states and compare their statues and come up with true reasonable rules that all could live by.

According to the State Comptroller, the gaming houses in this state aren't doing very well, so the cash cow's teets aren't producing enough to stay self supportive, not to mention bringing in revenue, at least to this point in time.

As for MD to do an objective comparison to other shall issue CCW States and implement shall issue in MD based on that comparison, is a pipedream for us all.

Guys seriously hop the hell off the no alcohol while carrying train. There has been no state to date that has had any problems with allowing drinking while carrying. Why? Because people who CCW have the common sense to know not to get ****ed up while carrying.

Walter, I understand your point regarding alcohol and CCW. In regard to your statement of "no state to date has had any problems with allowing drinking while carrying" I'll have to disagree. One of our MD's elite with a CCW permit (lawyer and/or politician) was pulled over while under the influence of alcohol and LE discovered a loaded handgun in the vehicle of which he was driving alone. This happened about one or two years ago somewhere on the lower Eastern Shore IIRC. Needless to say, this incident didn't help our cause. Sorry to bust your bubble.

You folks in d7 have all the luck...

I just got this back from Del. Szeliga...

Again, Del. Szeliga's didn't post with my multi-quote. Her response was direct and full of substance, be that substance good or bad, and in this case, GOOD.

The previous Del. Zucker response was a waste of time and perhaps a mouthfull of meaningless words spoken in true political fashion placed in cyberspace. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong with this statement.

 

[Mr H]

I don't necessarily disagree with you on the Zucker response... Perfunctory and surface-deep...

BUT

It wasn't negative.

 

[Lou45]

I don't necessarily disagree with you on the Zucker response... Perfunctory and surface-deep...

BUT

It wasn't negative.

I DO agree with you that Zucker's response wasn't negative.
BUT
It was placed in the guise of true political fashion, words with no substance. As you've probably noticed, I've also indicated that my thinking in regard to my statement will hopefully be proven wrong. That's all I was trying to convey other than the difference between the two Delegates' responses; substance vs. no substance.

 

[Mr H]

I DO agree with you that Zucker's response wasn't negative.
BUT
It was placed in the guise of true political fashion, words with no substance. As you've probably noticed, I've also indicated that my thinking in regard to my statement will hopefully be proven wrong. That's all I was trying to convey other than the difference between the two Delegates' responses; substance vs. no substance.

No issue here... the only difference being he actually responded (which is more than I can say for 95% of the EOs out there).

 

[tdt91]

Sensitive Places:

SENATE BILL 21
(A) A PERSON WHO HOLDS A PERMIT MAY NOT WEAR, CARRY, OR 1 TRANSPORT A HANDGUN WHILE THE PERSON IS ON THE REAL PROPERTY OF: 2
(1) A CHURCH OR OTHER PLACE OF WORSHIP; 3
(2) AN ESTABLISHMENT LICENSED TO SERVE ALCOHOLIC 4 BEVERAGES; 5
(3) A GOVERNMENT BUILDING; 6
(4) A PRIVATE SCHOOL, UNIVERSITY, OR COLLEGE; 7
(5) A PUBLIC SCHOOL, UNIVERSITY, OR COLLEGE; 8
(6) A PUBLIC LIBRARY; 9
(7) A THEATER OR MOVIE THEATER; OR 10
(8) A YOUTH CENTER. 11
(B) A PERSON WHO VIOLATES THIS SECTION IS GUILTY OF A 12 MISDEMEANOR AND ON CONVICTION IS SUBJECT TO IMPRISONMENT NOT 13 EXCEEDING 1 YEAR OR A FINE NOT EXCEEDING $1,000 OR BOTH.

When will the idiots realize it's the gun free zones were the cowards in life committ mass murder? They are just to fu(king stupid to see it.

 

[teratos]

If they can do it for one in 24 hours, they should be able to do it for all in 24 hours.

No, they can't. The provision is, and should be, available for those who have an urgent need for a handgun permit...this is when your life is in imminent danger. Nobody can expect the State to issue every permit in 24 hours. Imagine if the situation were reversed. The State says it takes 90 days to issue a permit. You have never really wanted one before, but now you have a threat against you or your family. The answer? Sorry Mr. Hen, there is no provision in the law for you, get to the back of the line.

 

[Patrick]

FWIW, you can drink while carrying in Florida. The same rules apply, except for the "bar exception", which is weird considering people have been stone drunk and shot in defense and gotten off.

There is smart-sense and the law. The two do not always conjoin.

I'm of the mindset that we don't advocate laws until they are proven to be required, and only when they actually will solve the problem at hand. Drunks with guns is bad, but not sure of any research showing laws prevent the two from meeting.

 

[tc617]

I have been thinking about the (4) A PRIVATE SCHOOL, UNIVERSITY, OR COLLEGE; 7 part of this bill today and come up with these questions...

Is an academy or technical school/institute considered a private school, university, or college? I would say most definitely, YES. So, if these places became gun-free zones...

Where would you teach the gunsmithing trade?

What about the Maryland State Police Academy? Wouldn't the academy become a gun-free zone?

What about a private military academy or military school where firearms training is part of the curriculum?