Severability - let's get one thing straight

[Brooklyn]

I see you spreading a lot of criticism but when pressed you don't have any solutions so you punt with "then start a petition"

I don't think people who want litigation are wrong, I don't think people who want a referendum are wrong either, I don't even think that people who want to hold out for changing the MGA are wrong. I think we should go for all three and not disparage our allies who hold a slightly different view point. It's going to take all of us and more to make any difference at all.

Still not offended.
I can't do all three.
I have chosen what I think is the best option.
So have others.

Now you chose.
Then do something.
Pick one
Or do all three.
I have chosen what I will do.
Now its up to you or any of the others..



That is all.

 

[iggy]

Still not offended.
I can't do all three.
I have chosen what I think is the best option.
So have others.

Now you chose.
Then do something.
Pick one
Or do all three.
I have chosen what I will do.
Now its up to you or any of the others..



That is all.

More of that elitist attitude

Being new to this board doesn't mean I am new to guns, shooting or being an advocate of the 2ndA.

 

[Brooklyn]

More of that elitist attitude

Being new to this board doesn't mean I am new to guns, shooting or being an advocate of the 2ndA.

New not new who cares?

Will you do it? If not OK with me. If so you don't have time to argue about it.

The Internet just ran out of bits.

 

[fabsroman]

Then bring the petition. Now. Your clock is ticking not mine. I will not do it. You will not do it? Who will?

If you think the referendum is the right thing to do then it is your duty to do it. Not mine.

Do or do not do. Find all the people who think I am wrong and show me up. I can take it.

Posting is not doing. Doing is doing.

I have only decided for me. I have no other power. I can not decide for you. Would not, could not.

So there is only one question remaining --- what will you do. And when will you do it.

See, there you have it. ALL of OUR clocks are ticking. This should NOT be a referendum vs. Court issue, but a 2nd Amendment issue in its totality. October 1, 2013 is the current alarm setting. The snooze button can be hit for ALL of us until November 2014. After that, if the alarm still goes off, we can try to smash the alarm clock in Court, but that will take years and a big baseball bat, if not bazooka.

Like I said, this has been divisive, and the manner in which you post only goes to show it some more, even though you say we are not divided at this point.

If you think OUR clock is running and YOUR clock is not, and we are NOT divided now, you might need to have your clock rung. lol

 

[fabsroman]

Still not offended.
I can't do all three.
I have chosen what I think is the best option.
So have others.

Now you chose.
Then do something.
Pick one
Or do all three.
I have chosen what I will do.
Now its up to you or any of the others..



That is all.

I cannot do all three. Sounds like the biggest cop out possible.

You could have said I will lend as much help as possible to all three, but saying you cannot do all three is BS. You could easily help out all three just by making people aware of the issue while you are talking to them. If you are going to be talking to people about the 2014 vote and the referendum is on the ballot, you could discuss the referendum along with discussing the removal of these anti-freedom, over taxing, legislators that we have in Maryland.

Nah, I call BS on the "I can't do all three of them". Sounds like a cop out for somebody with a closed mind. The referendum has started, so why not make it look like we as a community are behind it full force and that we can stick together. I know, it is really tough and time consuming to sign the petition. Even tougher and more time consuming to vote regarding the referendum. Even tougher to bring up the subject while talking to voters regarding the 2014 election and the issues.

I think the referendum is one of the easier areas to contribute to, versus the "I want nothing to do with it attitude" that so many show on here. At the minimum, everybody can sign the petition and vote regarding it.

 

[fabsroman]

New not new who cares?

Will you do it? If not OK with me. If so you don't have time to argue about it.

The Internet just ran out of bits.

The NRA, MSI, and MdShooters have already poisoned the well when it comes to the referendum. Trying to administer the antidote to you, but it looks like it is a lost cause.

 

[Brooklyn]

The NRA, MSI, and MdShooters have already poisoned the well when it comes to the referendum. Trying to administer the antidote to you, but it looks like it is a lost cause.

Got it NRA bad you briliant we fools. Heard you the first time.

We're all divided, but its because we are all lock step NRA robots. Divided but unitied so much that one organisation has killed our hopes and dreams.

Got it.


I am the cop out .... OK blame me I single handedly prevented you from in brainwashing the entire population of sheeple gun owners in Maryland...

OK then. As long as we can blame the NRA all is well.

10-7

 

[Brooklyn]

I cannot do all three. Sounds like the biggest cop out possible.

You could have said I will lend as much help as possible to all three, but saying you cannot do all three is BS. You could easily help out all three just by making people aware of the issue while you are talking to them. If you are going to be talking to people about the 2014 vote and the referendum is on the ballot, you could discuss the referendum along with discussing the removal of these anti-freedom, over taxing, legislators that we have in Maryland.

Nah, I call BS on the "I can't do all three of them". Sounds like a cop out for somebody with a closed mind. The referendum has started, so why not make it look like we as a community are behind it full force and that we can stick together. I know, it is really tough and time consuming to sign the petition. Even tougher and more time consuming to vote regarding the referendum. Even tougher to bring up the subject while talking to voters regarding the 2014 election and the issues.

I think the referendum is one of the easier areas to contribute to, versus the "I want nothing to do with it attitude" that so many show on here. At the minimum, everybody can sign the petition and vote regarding it.

Then you do it. I know the game well. I will not play.

I need to target my message to each district. Of course I am not a genius like you. Oh well I have my limits..

10-7.

 

[Brooklyn]

See, there you have it. ALL of OUR clocks are ticking. This should NOT be a referendum vs. Court issue, but a 2nd Amendment issue in its totality. October 1, 2013 is the current alarm setting. The snooze button can be hit for ALL of us until November 2014. After that, if the alarm still goes off, we can try to smash the alarm clock in Court, but that will take years and a big baseball bat, if not bazooka.

Like I said, this has been divisive, and the manner in which you post only goes to show it some more, even though you say we are not divided at this point.

If you think OUR clock is running and YOUR clock is not, and we are NOT divided now, you might need to have your clock rung. lol

I will stop now. Then the pro referendum Crowd can come back and in and play..

Maybe will just sit and watch then I am gone and all will be right with the world.

10-7

 

[fabsroman]

Then you do it. I know the game well. I will not play.

I need to target my message to each district. Of course I am not a genius like you. Oh well I have my limits..

10-7.

Is your real name Brooklyn? I want to be able to track what you do for the 2014 election and give credit where due, should it be due.

I plan on supporting all 3 areas. Granted, the number of hours invested might not be the same as you, or the amount of money, but support them I will. Unlike you, I am not resigned to one method being so much better than another method that I find the need to bad mouth the other methods and follow in the NRA's footsteps.

 

[fabsroman]

Got it NRA bad you briliant we fools. Heard you the first time.

We're all divided, but its because we are all lock step NRA robots. Divided but unitied so much that one organisation has killed our hopes and dreams.

Got it.


I am the cop out .... OK blame me I single handedly prevented you from in brainwashing the entire population of sheeple gun owners in Maryland...

OK then. As long as we can blame the NRA all is well.

10-7

If we were ALL "lock step" NRA robots, we would not be divided now would we?

Glad to see you went back and cleaned up this post because the e-mail notification I received made it look like you were writing in Martian.

 

[Brooklyn]

Is your real name Brooklyn? I want to be able to track what you do for the 2014 election and give credit where due, should it be due.

I plan on supporting all 3 areas. Granted, the number of hours invested might not be the same as you, or the amount of money, but support them I will. Unlike you, I am not resigned to one method being so much better than another method that I find the need to bad mouth the other methods and follow in the NRA's footsteps.

No I decided to cop out remember
.And if you track me I hope you are not making a threat.

 

[iggy]

No I decided to cop out remember
.And if you track me I hope you are not making a threat.

I doubt it's a threat. He is probably like me, wondering why you won't say who you are if you have this huge agenda that you plan to bring to multiple districts.

What I am seeing seems like that country song, you are so much cooler online

 

[Brooklyn]

I doubt it's a threat. He is probably like me, wondering why you won't say who you are if you have this huge agenda that you plan to bring to multiple districts.

What I am seeing seems like that country song, you are so much cooler online

Fair enough. Now when the time comes and if there is no referendum then you may see lots of folks talking to their neighbors about lots of stuff other than gun control.

Otherwise it will be all guns all the time. And we win or lose on one issue alone. That's not a great secret here. And guess what that's why op force wants the referendum.. But we have been over this and over this.

...

 

[ShoreShooter]

Since we are all repeating ourselves, I'll have a go at the same thing.

Show me a referendum where the conservative / Republican point of view has won, and a 2a referendum can be on the table. But I don't think you can.

Does the court route have risks? Damn right. But there is at least SOME chance of winning in that route.

Is the election route hard? You damn betcha skippy. But the good news is if we can get in a pro 2a legislator, then at the same time we get in someone more than likely who cares about other important things like property rights, spending / taxes, and other things near and dear to all of us.

 

[fabsroman]

No I decided to cop out remember
.And if you track me I hope you are not making a threat.

Depends on the definition of "threat".

Am I threatening physical violence. Nope. Nobody on this board would be worth something like that. Nobody. I would lose my license to practice law, my CPA license, my 2nd Amendment Right, and possibly go to prison and not be able to be with the people that are the most important to me, my wife and 3 kids. Not a single person on here is worth losing all that, especially not you. About the only time I would resort to physical violence would be to protect my family or me.

Now, could I be threatening to call you out on your BS should you not take an instrumental role in all this internet bravado regarding replacing the Maryland delegates in the 2014 election. Yeah, you can count on that threat. So, I understand why you want to remain anonymous. That way, you can talk all this BS and not be held accountable to it.

That is one thing that bugs me about the internet. The anonymity that allows people to say stuff without much accountability.

Edit to add: Actually depends on how the word "threat" is used, not really the definition.

 

[fabsroman]

Since we are all repeating ourselves, I'll have a go at the same thing.

Show me a referendum where the conservative / Republican point of view has won, and a 2a referendum can be on the table. But I don't think you can.

Does the court route have risks? Damn right. But there is at least SOME chance of winning in that route.

Is the election route hard? You damn betcha skippy. But the good news is if we can get in a pro 2a legislator, then at the same time we get in someone more than likely who cares about other important things like property rights, spending / taxes, and other things near and dear to all of us.

The ramifications of a loss at the Court level is tough, and there is NO WAY that all of SB281 will be overturned via the Courts. Some of it will survive.

Now, win on a referendum, and the entire thing goes away. Lose on a referendum and we allegedly send the message to the General Assembly to address gun control full steam ahead. Granted, I think not even coming up with the signatures for the referendum pretty much tells the General Assembly that we are scared of a referendum and we concede that the majority of Marylanders are in favor of this crap sandwich that they just gave us.

As far as the election is concerned, if you think we will be able to elect candidates in these "at risk" districts that are a 180 degree swing from what is already there, then you are dreaming. The first idea is to elect new blood that will not have the political power/leverage to do much in Annapolis. The next objective would be to elect a Democrat that isn't quite as anti 2nd Amendment as the one being replaced. The third objective is to replace enough of these Dems with other Dems that the Dems understand that passing gun control legislation can be dangerous to their political careers. If you think this election movement is going to get Republicans put in place of these anti 2nd Amendment Democrats, I'll take some of what you are smoking. I might be able to sleep better that way.

Me, I think we are going to lose on all fronts (i.e., referendum, election, and litigation), that the steam from this pro 2nd Amendment movement is going to wain, and come election time next year people still will not go out to vote. I was hoping that a single issue on the ballot like SB281 would motive the 40% of non-registered voters that showed up in Annapolis to oppose SB281. Who knows, maybe that is too much to ask too.

It is just my belief to try everything in the hope that something actually prevails.

Have to wonder what the NRA is hoping to gain out of litigating SB281 that will benefit us and the rest of the nation and what it thinks we will still be saddled with once the litigation is over.

 

[Brooklyn]

Depends on the definition of "threat".

Am I threatening physical violence. Nope. Nobody on this board would be worth something like that. Nobody. I would lose my license to practice law, my CPA license, my 2nd Amendment Right, and possibly go to prison and not be able to be with the people that are the most important to me, my wife and 3 kids. Not a single person on here is worth losing all that, especially not you. About the only time I would resort to physical violence would be to protect my family or me.

Now, could I be threatening to call you out on your BS should you not take an instrumental role in all this internet bravado regarding replacing the Maryland delegates in the 2014 election. Yeah, you can count on that threat. So, I understand why you want to remain anonymous. That way, you can talk all this BS and not be held accountable to it.

That is one thing that bugs me about the internet. The anonymity that allows people to say stuff without much accountability.

Edit to add: Actually depends on how the word "threat" is used, not really the definition.

Not to worry then. You have convinced me to move on. I really like the idea of coping out, so much less work.

 

[6-Pack]

Since we are all repeating ourselves, I'll have a go at the same thing.

Show me a referendum where the conservative / Republican point of view has won, and a 2a referendum can be on the table. But I don't think you can.

Does the court route have risks? Damn right. But there is at least SOME chance of winning in that route.

Is the election route hard? You damn betcha skippy. But the good news is if we can get in a pro 2a legislator, then at the same time we get in someone more than likely who cares about other important things like property rights, spending / taxes, and other things near and dear to all of us.

I think the DINO movement can help re-seat a few chairs in the GA, but a huge impact that will change 2A in Maryland? Not likely.

This will likely help in making future anti-2A "less bad," but it won't really help with 281.

 

[Merlin]

SB281 is not going down in flames in its entirety just because one section is deemed unconstitutional and there is no severability clause within the bill itself.

SCOTUS looks to legislative intent when determining whether an unconstitutional portion of a bill is severable or not.

The 2013 Maryland Legislative Drafting Manual deals with this pretty well.

http://dls.state.md.us/data\leganda...ana_bildra_bildraman\2013-Drafting-Manual.pdf

The basic test for determining whether a bill embraces more than one subject
is whether or not all portions of the bill are “germane” (i.e., connected, related, pertinent) or whether they are foreign to one another. Note that absent an express nonseverability clause, all enactments of the General Assembly are presumed to be severable. (See Article 1  Rules of Interpretation, § 23 of the Annotated Code.)

Therefore, on determining that a law embraces more than one subject, a court will attempt to define and give effect to the principal subject of the enactment and separate out the dissimilar subjects. For an analysis of the application of the “one subject” rule to a legislative enactment, see Migdal v. State, 358 Md. 308 (2000).

at p. 35

Severability Clause and Nonseverability Clause
Article 1 – Rules of Interpretation, § 23 of the Annotated Code states that
provisions of statutes enacted after July 1, 1973, are severable unless the statute specifically provides that they are not. However, the following clause may be used to reinforce this rule:

Example
...; making the provisions of this Act severable; ...

SECTION 2. AND BE IT FURTHER ENACTED, That if any provision of this
Act or the application thereof to any person or circumstance is held invalid for any reason in a court of competent jurisdiction, the invalidity does not affect other provisions or any other application of this Act which can be given effect without the invalid provision or application, and for this purpose the provisions of this Act are declared severable.

at p. 109-110

So, while the General Assembly could add the above language to reinforce that a bill is severable should any portion of it be struck down, the presumption since 1973 is that everything is severable UNLESS the General Assembly puts something into the bill stating that the bill is NOT severable.

So, SB281 is NOT getting struck down in its entirety just because one single portion is found unconstitutional.

I hate raining on our parade. Now, if anybody can prove the opposite, I am all ears/eyes and will be dancing in the streets after agreeing with you.

If you were relying on the bill not being severable in the hope that it would all be struck down in Court, you need to change your risk outlook now.

Never say never