Scope base and mounts

[stan5677]

So I took my Mossberg Patriot in 270 out to the range today and couldn't hit paper if my life depended on it even at 25yds. One of the range officers said the when he looked through the bore it didn't match what was seen through the scope even at max windage adjustment. I have the vortex scope package and will take it to a gunsmith this week to have them check the mounting and boresight it again. Should I upgrade the rings and bases or should I keep what I have on the rifle?

 

[smokey]

This is like... my tire on the right side is worn more than the right, do I have a defective tire?

It could be a lot of different things...could be the mount, the gun could have been drilled wrong, the scope could be bent, it could be installed wrong...who knows. Have someone knowledgeable check it out.... that or post pictures so we have at least something to go off of.

Shot from directly behind, shot from above, shot from the side, closeup of the rings.

 

[stan5677]

This is like... my tire on the right side is worn more than the right, do I have a defective tire?

It could be a lot of different things...could be the mount, the gun could have been drilled wrong, the scope could be bent, it could be installed wrong...who knows. Have someone knowledgeable check it out.... that or post pictures so we have at least something to go off of.

Shot from directly behind, shot from above, shot from the side, closeup of the rings.

here is a pic of the rings i can take more pics if neccessary

 

[Sticky]

Simple test... it's a bolt action rifle, do what he did.. remove the bolt so you can see down the bore, rest the rifle so it won't move easily and look down the barrel at a target 50-100yds away... anything.. the neighbor's shed, a big tree trunk, a car across the street... anything large enough to see clearly with the naked eye.. line the bore up on that target... now without touching or moving the rifle, peek through the scope and see where it's looking. A difference in bore and scope alignment should be obvious like that..

 

[stan5677]

Simple test... it's a bolt action rifle, do what he did.. remove the bolt so you can see down the bore, rest the rifle so it won't move and without touching it, look down the barrel at a target 50-100yds away... anything.. the neighbor's shed, a big tree trunk, a car across the street... anything large enough to see clearly with the naked eye.. line the bore up on that target... now without touching or moving the rifle, peek through the scope and see where it's looking. A difference in bore and scope alignment should be obvious like that..

The range officer said it looked out of alignment when he looked at it

 

[outrider58]

Not a particularly good mounting job(no offense). Just as a 'seat of your pants' mounting, you want all the gaps between the upper and lower rings to be the same. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE SCREWS! Put a dab of blue Locktite on the screws before you snug them up. Learn how to bore sight it yourself. It isn't difficult and it doesn't take anything other than your eyes.

 

[stan5677]

Not a particularly good mounting job(no offense). Just as a 'seat of your pants' mounting, you want all the gaps between the upper and lower rings to be the same. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE SCREWS! Put a dab of blue Locktite on the screws before you snug them up. Learn how to bore sight it yourself. It isn't difficult and it doesn't take anything other than your eyes.

Came like this from the factory

 

[Doobie]

The range officer said it looked out of alignment when he looked at it

Did you look at it as well? If it looks out of alignment to you as well, then that is two different sets of eyes seeing the same thing. If you don't have a bore sighting tool, most gun shops have bore sighting equipment that they can check it with as well.

 

[stan5677]

Did you look at it as well? If it looks out of alignment to you as well, then that is two different sets of eyes seeing the same thing. If you don't have a bore sighting tool, most gun shops have bore sighting equipment that they can check it with as well.

i looked at it as well and it was off even with a max windage adjustment

 

[Sticky]

The range officer said it looked out of alignment when he looked at it

If you get it checked and boresighted, it should definitely be on paper at 25yds and close to smack-on if they properly boresight it..

I eyeball my boresighting as I mentioned and at 100yds I will be on paper within a few inches of dead-on, it's pretty easy.

Outrider's notes are correct, if you mount the scope yourself, be sure that the upper and lower rings have about the same amount of gap on each side, mount the lower rings first, snug them up to the rails, lay the scope in and be sure it rests fully in both front and rear lower rings, attach the upper rings, a little at a time, alternate screws from side to side a little at a time til they are snug. Use loctite on the screws to prevent loosening and torque according to mfr's recommendations (this is important!). Also be sure that the scope is positioned to give you proper eye relief, but not to one extreme of the range (scope all the way back or forward against either ring).

If that were mine, I'd have the scope a tad more rearward than they do...

 

[outrider58]

Came like this from the factory

All the more reason to remount it. It ain't rocket surgery. YouTube is your friend in the instance. Do those rings tighten to the mount on both sides? If yes, that is probably the problem. If they are Millet rings, throw them away and get some other rings. That's only my opinion.

 

[stan5677]

If you get it checked and boresighted, it should definitely be on paper at 25yds and close to smack-on if they properly boresight it..

I eyeball my boresighting as I mentioned and at 100yds I will be on paper within a few inches of dead-on, it's pretty easy.

Outrider's notes are correct, if you mount the scope yourself, be sure that the upper and lower rings have about the same amount of gap on each side, mount the lower rings first, snug them up to the rails, lay the scope in and be sure it rests fully in both front and rear lower rings, attach the upper rings, a little at a time, alternate screws from side to side a little at a time til they are snug. Use loctite on the screws to prevent loosening and torque according to mfr's recommendations (this is important!). Also be sure that the scope is positioned to give you proper eye relief, but not to one extreme of the range (scope all the way back or forward against either ring).

If that were mine, I'd have the scope a tad more forward than they do...

Glad you guys are more knowledgeable than me this is my first rifle

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Glad you guys are more knowledgeable than me this is my first rifle

Please don't take this the wrong way. Resist the urge to take it to a gunsmith.

Being your first rifle, learn all you can about your rifle. Read, read, and read some more.

Learn about scopes. Learn about bases and rings. Learn about mounting the scope and how to adjust the scope.

Way too many gun owners rely on other people to get their guns up and running again. Don't fall into that trap. Once you learn how to tinker on your own toys, you will feel a huge sense of accomplishment.

Good luck with YOU getting her sighted in.

 

[outrider58]

Please don't take this the wrong way. Resist the urge to take it to a gunsmith.

Being your first rifle, learn all you can about your rifle. Read, read, and read some more.

Learn about scopes. Learn about bases and rings. Learn about mounting the scope and how to adjust the scope.

Way too many gun owners rely on other people to get their guns up and running again. Don't fall into that trap. Once you learn how to tinker on your own toys, you will feel a huge sense of accomplishment.

Good luck with YOU getting her sighted in.

^^^This man speaks the truth. It ain't that hard.

 

[smokey]

.... take it to someone who knows what they're doing. Most gun packages with scopes are roughly boresighted when they're tossed together(I chose "tossed together" on purpose). Like I said though, there's no way of knowing if the base was mounted wrong, if the holes were drilled true, if the scope is undamaged, if the rings are installed correctly, if the rings are not defective,...etc. Mossberg is a pretty standup company. Take it to a gunshop. They'll look it over and see if anything obvious is wrong, and they may even teach you a bit as you are standing there. If any part is out of spec, then you can call up mossberg and tell them to send a replacement or fix the scope package for you.

Again, if you have tires wearing uneven...is it the tire? Is it your brakes? Is your car out of alignment? Is your tire not balanced correctly? is your tire underinflated? Is something in your suspension broken? Honestly at this point, you don't know what to look for. You may be able to boresight it and say, "this is not in alignment", but you probably don't have the knowledge at this point to say why. Go to someone that can.

 

[hillbilly grandpa]

I would second ih8DemLibz's words of wisdom. Having worked through many "problems" I would say that your frame of mind is important. You either have a problem in the common sense of the term, or you have a problem in the scientific sense. In the latter case you formulate a possible solution (hypothesis) after you have studied the situation from multiple angles in order to state the problem. You test your possible solution and observe the result; reformulate your hypothesis and test that one. And so on. My point is that your process will become increasingly fascinating, you will learn things you didn't even set out to study. Along the way you will discover how to resolve your "problem" and will become more confident about your knowledge and your ability to "tame" your firearm. "Let's get busy!"

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I would second ih8DemLibz's words of wisdom. Having worked through many "problems" I would say that your frame of mind is important. You either have a problem in the common sense of the term, or you have a problem in the scientific sense. In the latter case you formulate a possible solution (hypothesis) after you have studied the situation from multiple angles in order to state the problem. You test your possible solution and observe the result; reformulate your hypothesis and test that one. And so on. My point is that your process will become increasingly fascinating, you will learn things you didn't even set out to study. Along the way you will discover how to resolve your "problem" and will become more confident about your knowledge and your ability to "tame" your firearm. "Let's get busy!"

^^^And this is why I love reloading too.^^^

 

[Doobie]

Very good suggestions and input from everyone here.
A few stories on how the simplest things can cause such a headache.
-Had a buddy who went through 2 boxes of 30/06 ammo trying to sight his rifle in. I just happened to stop by his house during the midst of his outrage...he was ready to wrap the rifle around a telephone pole(and he was the type of guy who would do it lol). I asked him what the problem was and he said it wouldn't sight in...was all over the paper.
I looked at the rifle, checking the mounts, screws, etc. Then I saw the problem and started laughing. He mounted the scope with windage and elevation knobs Top and left instead of top and right. We oriented it correctly and he had it sighted in with less than 10 shots.
-A neighbor had a 270 that he couldn't get to sight in(I don't recall the make of rifle). Turns out that he had the front and rear mounts/rings reversed, causing the front or the rear(can't remember which its been so long) to be higher.
I didn't know was possible until that day. Gun shop installed them correctly, sighted in fine.
- Lastly, Billymx48 and I were out shooting and my rifle was not zeroed anymore(last time I had it out, I sighted it in and it sat in the gun safe for 2 years). I adjusted the scope, but nothing happened. Billy walks over and said "Did ya check the mounts?" Me "No, its been in the safe, no way they are loose." They were loose.

 

[stan5677]

Thanks for all the advise. Besides me not shooting for crap i enjoyed the range time. I don't see how people say the 270 is not enjoyable to shoot.

 

[Melnic]

do it yourself I say
http://survivaltopics.com/boresighting-a-rifle/

The thing that trips people up and I see it all the time.
when bore sighting and you have the bore on target, you adjust like this
If cross hairs are above the target, you adjust UP not DOWN.
If cross hairs are right of target, you adjust RIGHT not LEFT.
Its the opposite as when your shooting to move the groups.
I have seen many people say, hey, the cross hairs are high, then move down and keep moving down till they get to the end of the adjustment, then say its a mounting problem.
Nope, they went the wrong way!

Use blue loctite on the screws too.

Good luck.