SBR and SRS ruling by MSP

[tc617]

This brings up two old questions;

If a SBR/SBS is a handgun, how can the MSP sign off on the Form 4 without the firearm being on the approved handgun roster?

And why has the MSP never required a fired shell casing for any Form 4 SBRs purchased in Maryland?

The MSP have been ignoring this for over a decade... Long before FSA '13.

 

[Calengor]

Item 2 under handgun definition is the interesting item there.

You're right, I'm a retard.

This brings up two old questions;

If a SBR/SBS is a handgun, how can the MSP sign off on the Form 4 without the firearm being on the approved handgun roster?

And why has the MSP never required a fired shell casing for any Form 4 SBRs purchased in Maryland?

The MSP have been ignoring this for over a decade... Long before FSA '13.

This is also a very good question, they've never required it before, and it's not like SB281 changed this part of the law.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

So a SBR is a handgun and all of those restrictions apply.

AND a SBR is a Centerfire rifle and all of THOSE restrictions apply.

They get their cake and it eat too.

 

[tc617]

So a SBR is a handgun and all of those restrictions apply.

AND a SBR is a Centerfire rifle and all of THOSE restrictions apply.

They get their cake and it eat too.

Just as long as they don't get any SNI pies!

Something interesting that I got from that advisory. It appears that if you can wear and carry a SBR/SBS since it is a handgun as long as you have a Maryland Handgun Permit. I see trench coats becoming the new Maryland Handgun Permit holder fashion.

 

[Jaybeez]

I see the "handgun" restrictions in the "wear and carry" code as a way to stop whippets (rifles illegally modified into handguns) and keep criminals from legally long gun carrying with chopped rifles. I would speculate that was the original intent, since whippets go back to the early 1900s, not this new interpretation.

 

[Biggfoot44]

4-203 (f) directly says mfg FROM a RIFLE. Does NOT adress mfg from a Virgin , pistol , (or even a shotgun).

4-203 (g) amazing only applies to SBS mfg from a RIFLE !?! So doesn't apply to SBS mfg from a Virgin , "other firearm" , or amazingly an actual shotgun.

4-201 (c) (2) defines Handgun to include SBR and SBS. But see other above noted sections of 4-201 (f) & (g) for what ISN'T an SBR or SBS.

Copycat provisions only apply to semi-auto rifles ( NOT lever , bolt , pump, single , etc ). Only apply to Semi-auto shotguns with folding stocks. Does NOT apply to pumps , singles , doubles , and semi-auto's with a fixed butt stock or PGO .

5-401 (c) Roster provisions only include mfg for sale , or offered for sale. Does NOT include mfg for personal use on a Form 1 .

 

[Biggfoot44]

And no , it is not new that the chosen privledged few with Handgun Permit can conceal a NFA type item with the suitable bbl length. Most people used an AOW type item without a buttstock to lend a wink and nod to "handgun" . But now MSP is explicitly allowing concealed NFA items with buttstocks also.

 

[sixfivesavage]

What the hell is going on here? If you have a Remington 700 that you had planned to SBR, should you form one it NOW or just scrap the idea? I'm not getting my HQL.

 

[erwos]

4-203 (f) directly says mfg FROM a RIFLE. Does NOT adress mfg from a Virgin , pistol , (or even a shotgun).

Basically irrelevant. If the barrel is under 16", it's an SBR no matter what it was made from.

4-203 (g) amazing only applies to SBS mfg from a RIFLE !?! So doesn't apply to SBS mfg from a Virgin , "other firearm" , or amazingly an actual shotgun.

Misquote of the law... because it's not even a quote. They paraphrased it.

Copycat provisions only apply to semi-auto rifles ( NOT lever , bolt , pump, single , etc ). Only apply to Semi-auto shotguns with folding stocks. Does NOT apply to pumps , singles , doubles , and semi-auto's with a fixed butt stock or PGO .

That's not true. OAL applies to all semi-auto centerfire guns.

5-401 (c) Roster provisions only include mfg for sale , or offered for sale. Does NOT include mfg for personal use on a Form 1 .

True. But some of us have guns in form 4 hell now.

No one's trying to say "no more SBRs in MD". Clearly, that's not the case. But the new application of the roster requirement has HUGE consequences to dealers.

 

[Biggfoot44]

If you are doing a form 1 on a Rem 700 you already own , there is no Transfer. Likewise since it is NOT a semi-auto , there is no copycat baggage , and hence no 29in OAL requirement.

 

[GUNSnROTORS]

... fired shell casing for any Form 4 SBRs purchased in Maryland?

Reminds me ... I don't have a fired shell casing from any of my AR lowers that are now at the bottom of the Bay, due to that unfortunate boating ...

 

[Abacab]

Do I have to a 77-R a sub gun with a sub 16" barrel too?

 

[Why Try]

So you can never get a PS90 post Oct 1st and put a P90 barrel and SBR it. That would never fly as a handgun, right?

 

[Topher]

Okay.... Here is what pisses me off.
Since when does the executive branch (MDSP under the governer) get to make and interpret the law.

If I remember my Social Studies classes...
Legislative - Make the law
Executive - Enforces
Judicial - Interprets

Why does MDSP get to do all three?
Isn't that what a dictator does?

 

[sixfivesavage]

If you are doing a form 1 on a Rem 700 you already own , there is no Transfer. Likewise since it is NOT a semi-auto , there is no copycat baggage , and hence no 29in OAL requirement.

Even though the rifle was purchased after October? That's what was throwing me off. I haven't sent the form one in yet.

 

[protegeV]

Okay.... Here is what pisses me off.
Since when does the executive branch (MDSP under the governer) get to make and interpret the law.

If I remember my Social Studies classes...
Legislative - Make the law
Executive - Enforces
Judicial - Interprets

Why does MDSP get to do all three?
Isn't that what a dictator does?

Are they making the law or just putting out a statement about how they will enforce their interpretation of it?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Good catch post #30 while I was typing. It *might* be arguable for a (whatever you call what we're discussing) that is mfg in Md , and only shipped within Md, but would definately exclude a 007/SOT that manufactures and ultimatly transfers the (whatever) within the confines of their place of business.

 

[ohen cepel]

Is a rifle now a shotgun or vis versa?

Per their language;
CR § 4-201(g) defines “short-barreled shotgun” as a shotgun that has:
1. One or more barrels with one or both measuring less than 18 inches long; OR
2. Has an overall length of less than 26 inches AND was manufactured from a rifle either by alteration or modification.

Has md referred to shotguns as rifles in the past or is this unique to this document?

It all makes my head hurt.

 

[Biggfoot44]

With a Rem 700 ( or non-semi auto rifle generally ) pre or post- Oct1 2013 is irrelevent.

 

[Mr H]

Just as long as they don't get any SNI pies!

Something interesting that I got from that advisory. It appears that if you can wear and carry a SBR/SBS since it is a handgun as long as you have a Maryland Handgun Permit. I see trench coats becoming the new Maryland Handgun Permit holder fashion.

Don't forget to dog training too!!