SBR and SRS ruling by MSP

[Inigoes]

This weapon is now a handgun to MD, but an SBR to the BATFE.

This plays into the current MSI case.

 

[SCARCQB]

This is making my head hurt.
EFF it , save your money and buy a machinegun.

 

[erwos]

This plays into the current MSI case.

Someone needs to enlighten me about how they're using NFA guns and Bushmasters in their case; I've heard references, but never actually have seen the plan for those.

This is making my head hurt.
EFF it , save your money and buy a machinegun.

Doesn't help those of us with non-roster SBRs in form 4 limbo.

 

[Inigoes]

Someone needs to enlighten me about how they're using NFA guns and Bushmasters in their case; I've heard references, but never actually have seen the plan for those.

Head over to the kolbe thread in the MD 2a issues.

The plaintiffs talk about the MSP creating regulation on a whim, which is what they are doing here.

 

[clandestine]

Im not a Antigun person but the MSP is NOT making up things. They are applying longstanding law with FSA2013 law. I told people this would happen and everyone shaked an angry fist at me.

Just because the MSP ignored the Roster issues in the past about under 16" barrel NFA devices does not mean they cant start enforcing the law.

People are so blinded by what they want the law to be that they cant see what the law really is.

 

[erwos]

I agree that they have the ability to do what they did with the roster, albeit not while simultaneously treating SBRs and SBSs as rifles and shotguns.

I just don't think it was the legislature's intent to leave dozens of NFA weapons in legal limbo.

 

[clandestine]

I agree that they have the ability to do what they did with the roster, albeit not while simultaneously treating SBRs and SBSs as rifles and shotguns.

I just don't think it was the legislature's intent to leave dozens of NFA weapons in legal limbo.

You really believe this?

I don't, not for a second.

They intentionally make these laws convoluted so the pubic is scared by them (Which reduces ownership). These Laws make it impossible for a non gun person LEO to actually understand the Law they are tasked to enforce (Heck, 95% of gun people don't understand current MD law before the FSA2013), and the law is so confusing that no Judge or Court could follow or understand the nuiances if argued in court.

None of this is an accident. None of it.

 

[dblas]

The Lawyers for the Kolbe case and the NRA legal office have a copy of the advisory as of about 1800 yesterday (NRA had a copy earlier), and started looking over it immediately. That is all I know at this time, if I find out more AND I AM ALOUD TO SHARE IT, I will pass it on.

 

[erwos]

You really believe this?

Absolutely. You think any of the legislators are really familiar with the intricacies of SBRs in MD and Fed law? They're collateral damage, nothing more. The law was carefully written to allow pre-10/1 transfers to go through, and there was no serious attempt to remove that language. Further, the MSP has consistently relaxed the rules to allow such transfers to go through (remember the "do I need an HQL for a pre-10/1 transfer?" debate, or the "can I replace my broken receiver" decision?).

The MSP made this decision, not the legislature.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

F'em

AOWs are only a $5 tax stamp!

I was told once that to manufacture an AOW, they are still $200 as that is Form 1.

YMMV.

So...let me get this straight, in a summary from a common man, to a common man:

• IF, you plan to make an SBR/SBS from a long gun, it must meat the feature test for copy cat, and overall lenght must be 29" or longer
• IF, you plant to make an SBR/SBS from a handgun, it must be on the roster, and then it can be less than 26" but it still has to meat the feature test for copycats (which is no more than 1 evil feature of folding stock, flash suppressor, ect)
• MSP & Owe'Malley Suck
• No one knows how we may have a Title 2, state SOT make Form 4 arms as of right now...
• Again, MSP & Owe'Malley Suck

Am I on the right page?

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Who is going to be the first to submit a KEG-12 to the roster board?

Or a Drako AK pistol?

 

[Inigoes]

I was told once that to manufacture an AOW, they are still $200 as that is Form 1.

YMMV.

So...let me get this straight, in a summary from a common man, to a common man:

• IF, you plan to make an SBR/SBS from a long gun, it must meat the feature test for copy cat, and overall lenght must be 29" or longer
• IF, you plant to make an SBR/SBS from a handgun, it must be on the roster, and then it can be less than 26" but it still has to meat the feature test for copycats (which is no more than 1 evil feature of folding stock, flash suppressor, ect)
• MSP & Owe'Malley Suck
• No one knows how we may have a Title 2, state SOT make Form 4 arms as of right now...
• Again, MSP & Owe'Malley Suck

Am I on the right page?

Yep

 

[Kharn]

I hope MSP gets told to back off, SB281 clearly says rifle, existing law clearly defines SBRs as pistols.

Or a Drako AK pistol?

Want.

 

[erwos]

I hope MSP gets told to back off, SB281 clearly says rifle, existing law clearly defines SBRs as handguns.

Fixed it for you. Plus, handguns can't be rifles according to MD code. *mind blown* You really gotta wonder whether the AG opinion is going to support this interpretation, or if it's going to be another "AG says you need an HQL post-10/1 to pick up a pre-10/1 gun, MSP says you don't" situation.

 

[TNW]

I thought now SBRs were either
1) a handgun AND ALG
2) a handgun AND a long gun, like a Colt HBAR

 

[rtruhn]

So I am going to need to retain the services of an expert. (Who the hell has "expertise" in this level of happy crappy?! But that's another debate...)

THE FACTS: I purchased a SBS from a Virginia dealer in May 2013, and we're waiting for ATF clearance to send it to a MD dealer so that I can file the paperwork. I don't know if it will meet OAL (not that I'm sure it even applies), but it does have a very full stock so it might. If we conclude it does matter, I'll contact my Virginia peeps for a measurement.

MY QUESTIONS: Does purchase date matter if I bought it out-of-state? The paperwork that the MD dealer files will be the date it receives the shotgun, I'd imagine. Am I going to have to get this CZ Huglu double-barrel cleared through the Handgun Roster Board? Am I totally FUBARed here???

 

[erwos]

Shotguns don't have an OAL problem. You'll be fine if it needs to run through the roster board.

 

[Ab_Normal]

The 72 hour clock is ticking ... you will be a felon by the end of the weekend

Not as long as it was a pre 10/1 boating accident.

 

[rtruhn]

Shotguns don't have an OAL problem. You'll be fine if it needs to run through the roster board.

Thanks! This takes a load off my mind (though it probably is going to pile on the amount of time I'll have to wait). Always appreciate your opinion and perspective on these forums.

 

[Hopalong]

Im not a Antigun person but the MSP is NOT making up things. They are applying longstanding law with FSA2013 law. I told people this would happen and everyone shaked an angry fist at me.

Just because the MSP ignored the Roster issues in the past about under 16" barrel NFA devices does not mean they cant start enforcing the law.

People are so blinded by what they want the law to be that they cant see what the law really is.

I see this ruling as a good thing. It clarifies our position so that we can better fight it. Without it, we were in limbo and unable to do anything about the situation.

Remember: the best way to win in court is to lose fast. Consider this the first loss in the MD NFA fight.