Remington 700 Police

[Doco Overboard]

Covered under "didn't know better".



MPBR would not require higher rings. Max. distance zero, which is what I think you actually meant, would be better served with a tapered scope base. That 30mm tube should have a lot of room for adjustment though.

I meant scope/line of sight higher than axis of bore center line increases the same. (negligible although as written but enough to eliminate only modest errors in judgment of distance for practical marksmanship/making hits).
Might have been Crosman commentary or Whelen I would have to go back and re -read to completely verify but Im certain Im not mistaken in what I wrote, or I wouldn't have provided what I did.

I would however like to go back and compare your term of max distance zero to see how it work outs out with the text in case I'm mistaken, but really dont think so at this time.
It certainly got me thinking of the why behind the obvious distance of line of sight/bore center line of obsolete telescope rifles. T. K98. M91 jap etc.) The builder/manufacturers could certainly have provided a lower mounting system but didn't.
Thanks for providing a response and the point of discussion/talking points.

Next

Another reason the owner could have mounted the scope so high was to alleviate problems with ejection and brass getting fouled back in to the action /mechanism.
I used a scope just like that one on a Browning Boss system 300 win mag and when working the bolt rapidly it would dump the empty right back onto the follower, fouling the action. The turret covers extend well past the main tube due to the design.
Eventually I learned to just rotate the scope so the elevation turret was the windage and the windage became the elevation. ( windage to the left or port side) The knobs are easy to remove with three small allen screws for zeroing and can easily be swapped to accommodate the new position so the movement indicators remain the same.
It lives on my M1A now with slightly higher rings than need be for the reason(s) described above and one of those Voodoo cheek rests but the turrets corrected as they were originally.
Maybe if the new owner looks at it he'll see small brass scuff marks on the turret cover outer edge which could be indicative of what i just described, Maybe not but I still question if the old owner considered or even experienced the same problem. He probably just mounted it up with what he had available to him.

 

[Pinecone]

Thanks
What can do you run

ThunderBeast CB9

The TB cans are known for no POI shift between can or no can.

 

[Pinecone]

I meant scope/line of sight higher than axis of bore center line increases the same. (negligible although as written but enough to eliminate only modest errors in judgment of distance for practical marksmanship/making hits).

For my rifle, raising the scope center line by 1 inch, changes the MPBR from 321 to 330 yards.

Not enough that you can really notice.

 

[28Shooter]

Mine shooting factory hornady at 200 yards. The gun is unmolested and completely as it left the factory

That is definitely a keeper Bigjohn - Wow!

 

[dist1646]

View attachment 334774

The height of scope has minimal effect. From what I was able to find, approximately 1/8 min @ 300yards between low vs high rings.

 

[teratos]

View attachment 334774

The height of scope has minimal effect. From what I was able to find, approximately 1/8 min @ 300yards between low vs high rings.

Big effect on your cheek weld. That’s the issue.

 

[dist1646]

Big effect on your cheek weld. That’s the issue.

Agreed!

 

[Augie]

Enjoying the discussion, From what I can gather me lowering the scope should have minimal effect on a 100 yard zero assuming the rifle was zeroed at 100 yards.

 

[teratos]

Enjoying the discussion, From what I can gather me lowering the scope should have minimal effect on a 100 yard zero assuming the rifle was zeroed at 100 yards.

Correct. The reason for different heights is to 1. Clear stuff on the rifle, 2. Get a good cheek weld on your stock, if necessary.

 

[Pinecone]

Enjoying the discussion, From what I can gather me lowering the scope should have minimal effect on a 100 yard zero assuming the rifle was zeroed at 100 yards.

We have not discussed that. We discussed the Maximum Point Blank Range.

If you zero at 200, a difference of 3 inches in scope height changes the point of impact at 100 yards by 1.5 inches (assuming you re-zero at 200). And the higher the scope, the lower the point of impact at 100 yards.

I don't know of a way, with existing ballistics computers to determine if what you are saying is accurate or not. My thought is, without changing the zero setting, the POI will change by the change in scope height. As the optical centerline will change, but the ballistic path of the bullet will not.

 

[dist1646]

Enjoying the discussion, From what I can gather me lowering the scope should have minimal effect on a 100 yard zero assuming the rifle was zeroed at 100 yards.

You will have to re-zero anytime you change to different rings. It may or may not be close. Boresight first and have at it. Just a part of the game.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Enjoying the discussion, From what I can gather me lowering the scope should have minimal effect on a 100 yard zero assuming the rifle was zeroed at 100 yards.

Depends on what point the barrel set up and vibrations occur when the bullet quits the muzzle. + or - phase, ammunition qualities and what effects the recoil and jump of the rifle produces. Shooter influence may create a cone of dispersion that may be favorable to an individual shooter.
Ballistic calculators and trajectory tables do none of that to my knowledge and may never will.
Practical application performed by the user will.

One easy way to determine mechanical zero and barrel vibration could be done as follows:
Accurately measure and determine sight height above bore center line. Line of sight and prolongation of bore axis parallel. Bore sight graticle for windage.

Fire a series of shots, 3 maybe at a target butt that has a bull center oriented exactly equidistant as the sights (line of sight) are above bore axis at approximately 11-13 yards.
Observe where shots land.
If they are higher, than the bull below aim point, barrel vibrations are positive.
If they are lower than bottom target center, barrel movement is negative. by firing at a target placed very closely time of flight and effects of gravity are minimized.

Determination of trajectory/firing tests, 2 types

Accurately adjust sights for which distance(s) trajectory is to be determined say 200 yards.
By firing at the distance to which the rise or fall of a bullet is to be determined at both 100 or 300 yards the average strike of the bullet can be determined for the two distances and be recorded. It's what every one usually does. The only difference is recoil and jump is included by actually firing the weapon.

The other way is to prepare a series of target at the distances described above but orient them so that each one can be fired upon by only slightly adjusting muzzle position so that can be shot at intervals without breaking body position.
The targets should be placed so they are slightly interfering with one another but that the bull which can be any size but remain so that it can be clearly seen at each target as the test progresses.
Of course disregard errant shots, pulled shots poor aim etc. Average the strike of the bullets on the three targets with sites again set for 200 yards while shifting aim between the 300 and 100 yard targets and compare against trajectory tables for a known cartridge or compare say a hand-loaded cartridge against previously recorded data from testing.
Other caveats are to conducting a screen test is a spotting scope and helper to accurately plot strikes is beneficial, A level range with plenty of room helpful and shooting from a bench with a telescope is better.Being able to accurately place cross wires onto a black bull with white center for consistency is a plus for identifying small aiming errors. Consistent light for open site systems is good to.

Do I do this with every rifle I own? Is it perfect?
Absolutely not.
Would one have to make corrections to scope settings when moving/repositioning etc? More often than not.

 

[American Defender]

Nice rifle. Have one I bought new in the late 80s in .308 at the Howard Co show. I wanted a SA, but couldn't afford one, and this was a good buy at 650 new and in box. I put a Leopold Bench Rest 25x on it and a Harris bipod.
Didnt get out to shoot it often as kids, etc, and run a bore swab through it. Prior to the latest ammo drought, I was able to pick up some Federal 168 Match.

Thread has inspired me to take it out to the range. Kids are grown, adjusting to retirement. Need to get that puppy out of the safe and take a 200 yd walk

 

[dist1646]

Nice rifle. Have one I bought new in the late 80s in .308 at the Howard Co show. I wanted a SA, but couldn't afford one, and this was a good buy at 650 new and in box. I put a Leopold Bench Rest 25x on it and a Harris bipod.
Didnt get out to shoot it often as kids, etc, and run a bore swab through it. Prior to the latest ammo drought, I was able to pick up some Federal 168 Match.

Thread has inspired me to take it out to the range. Kids are grown, adjusting to retirement. Need to get that puppy out of the safe and take a 200 yd walk

24" or 26" barrel? The early ones had a 24". Either way, they are great shooters.

 

[Pinecone]

You will have to re-zero anytime you change to different rings. It may or may not be close. Boresight first and have at it. Just a part of the game.

That is a given. The discussion was a what if.

 

[dist1646]

That is a given. The discussion was a what if.

I understood that.

 

[Furious George]

Great rifle.

Now you need one of these

 

[Augie]

Great rifle.

Now you need one of these

When I bought the rifle the trigger was pretty heavy, took the action out of the stock and adjusted the stock trigger, it still had the clear sealant they put on the screws and had never been adjusted, got it pretty reasonable so will shoot like that for awhile.
The Jewell is a great trigger and I would go with one if I ever upgrade. I have one on a 700 out of Remingtons Custom Shop and it is incredibly nice. Just found out the other day that the Custom Shop is no more, been closed down.

 

[Augie]

Ran out to AGC today and put it on paper at 100 yards, was pretty far to the left and a little high. After getting it zeroed shot a 20 shot group just to see if myself and the rifle would be consistent, looking good, should be a real shooter once I get a load worked up for it.
Shooting off the bipod and a rear bag.

 

[VRC Racing]

I too have one of the PSS rifles. I shot modified F-class at Quantico with it. Shot better than me with 175 SMK's. I put it in a McMillan chassis with a nightforce scope.