Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act

[zoostation]

I don't have time to look it up right now, but I'd be interested to know if the "buying a gun on the internet" NICS requirement includes things like using the classifieds here, or exchanging e-mails with another local gun enthusiast when buying or trading. The way the news made it sound the bill was only looking to preserve "relatives and neighbors" in ftf sales.

 

[3/2ACR Vet]

I think this is a step in the right direction, if he goes for gold it will not get through the Senate. This looks like he is trying to take two steps forward and one step back. Same process the libs use to strip away the 2nd amendment he is using it to try to take it back. Little by little, gain some ground this year and go for a little more next year.

How is giving any medical professional in the country the ability to remove your second amendment rights at a whim a "step in the right direction"?

There is no such thing as "good" gun control legislation. The only reason people craft legislation dealing with guns is to take away or limit your rights. These people are not your friends, they do not care about anythIng but lining their own pockets while using the least effort possible to f--- you.

If you agree to this or any other "compromise" they make, you're signing a deal with the devil, and you are part of the problem

 

[Shift]

I dont agree with any compromise but if we want something to pass the senate and not get vetoed by Obama we have to compromise to a point as long as we are gaining ground. This isn't perfect and open to whatever amendments we can get. If you think a 100% pro 2a bill will even get out of committee in the current environment then you are completely mistaken.

The libs have been scratching away at the 2A for decades, we're not going to get it all back in 1 bill in 1 year.

 

[Ab_Normal]

I dont agree with any compromise but if we want something to pass the senate and not get vetoed by Obama we have to compromise to a point as long as we are gaining ground. This isn't perfect and open to whatever amendments we can get. If you think a 100% pro 2a bill will even get out of committee in the current environment then you are completely mistaken.

The libs have been scratching away at the 2A for decades, we're not going to get it all back in 1 bill in 1 year.

1 step forward and 1 step back puts you right back where you were...maybe.

 

[Shift]

1 step forward and 1 step back puts you right back where you were...maybe.

It does but this looks like 2 steps forward and one step back to me. Interstate handgun sales would be a big win back for us. The mental health portion keeps them from saying that medical professionals have to report. It can be amended to better define who exactly.

 

[bbguns]

I know a lot of pro-2A people want to find 'common ground' and be seen by the masses as being 'sensible' by compromising with regards to legislation.

Remember that, no matter how they package it, it's still Gun Control or, as Dan Bongino said, 'People Control.' If the anti-2A crowd is willing to accept a piece of legislation, they MUST believe that it furthers their cause, either immediately or by providing a future opportunity.

Does anyone know the last time Congress 'gave back' some 2A rights that were restricted? Every 'compromise' moves the nation closer to the ultimate anti-2A goal...

 

[fightinbluhen51]

I don't have time to look it up right now, but I'd be interested to know if the "buying a gun on the internet" NICS requirement includes things like using the classifieds here, or exchanging e-mails with another local gun enthusiast when buying or trading. The way the news made it sound the bill was only looking to preserve "relatives and neighbors" in ftf sales.

That's how a lot of folks are reading it, just as you described it.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

1 step forward and 1 step back puts you right back where you were...maybe.

Gun owners have been compromising since 1934...enough is enough when it comes to our fundamental, enumerated civil rights.

Levin had a good take on this...any action by the US Congress that is not an amendment to the Constitution with the corresponding 2/3rds majority vote by both houses, is illegal.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Gun owners have been compromising since 1934...enough is enough when it comes to our fundamental, enumerated civil rights.

Levin had a good take on this...any action by the US Congress that is not an amendment to the Constitution with the corresponding 2/3rds majority vote by both houses, is illegal.

Yep. So pretty much anything that is in direct conflict with the constitution and/or bill of rights is invalid UNTIL the constitution is amended. The BoR is not amendable since the Declaration of Independence recognized those rights as being endowed from our creator and unalienable.

 

[ThatIsAFact]

I don't have time to look it up right now, but I'd be interested to know if the "buying a gun on the internet" NICS requirement includes things like using the classifieds here, or exchanging e-mails with another local gun enthusiast when buying or trading. The way the news made it sound the bill was only looking to preserve "relatives and neighbors" in ftf sales.

It is not possible to "look it up right now," because the Manchin-Toomey Amendment has not been released yet. All of the news media reports describing what is supposedly in it are based on a press release. All the comments in this thread are based on the same press release, or on press reports that distill or distort the press release. Until there is actual legislative language, it is a bit premature for people start declaring that this-or-that provision is a fine thing or an awful thing. The Devil is very often in the details.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

It is not possible to "look it up right now," because the Manchin-Toomey Amendment has not been released yet. All of the news media reports describing what is supposedly in it are based on a press release. All the comments in this thread are based on the same press release, or on press reports that distill or distort the press release. Until there is actual legislative language, it is a bit premature for people start declaring that this-or-that provision is a fine thing or an awful thing. The Devil is very often in the details.

Yep...they have to pass it so we can find out what is in it.

And yes, they are going to offer the DiFi AWB as an amendment.

You can thank the RINO progressives (McLame and Grahmnsity, Collins, Toomey, et al) for their sellout of freedom.

 

[Inigoes]

So Machin and Toomey offered political cover?

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

It is not possible to "look it up right now," because the Manchin-Toomey Amendment has not been released yet. All of the news media reports describing what is supposedly in it are based on a press release. All the comments in this thread are based on the same press release, or on press reports that distill or distort the press release. Until there is actual legislative language, it is a bit premature for people start declaring that this-or-that provision is a fine thing or an awful thing. The Devil is very often in the details.

I called Manchin's office this morning. The text is not available yet.

*** Capturing the media and schools results in capturing the minds of the public ***

 

[Inigoes]

Hmmmm

Only public safety I see in the Constitution is Article 1 section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

The 2A of the constitution does say everyone can keep and bear arms

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

2A > public safety

/thread

 

[EL1227]

Things to watch out for ...

• Page count and fine print ... Remember Nanny Pelosi's pitch to pass ObamaCare. "You've got to pass the {2,000+ page} bill to find out what's in it."
  
  
• Rule making bodies ... Giving the ATF, DHS, HHS, or any other agency other than FBI the ability to 'define' the regulation will put power into the wrong hands.
  
  
• Backroom deals ... To save face and not be called a do nothing Congress by Obama, they will pass something half-assed, only to be manipulated after-the-fact. Be aware that Manchin probably has buco buck$ lined up from the DNC to help him fend off an "F" rating downgrade from the NRA. And Toomey will probably change his affiliation to get his 30 pieces of silver.
  
  
• Bottom line ... There is a process to amend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as defined in Article 5. Doing anything counter to that would be defined as INFRINGED.

Congress shall make no law ...

 

[ThatIsAFact]

I called Manchin's office this morning. The text is not available yet.

Exactly. That means they are still changing it, or that they are not changing it but want to keep it under wraps for as long as possible. Either way, caution is indicated. You have perhaps observed in the past examples in which press releases by officeholders did not closely correspond to the actual content of the legislation produced. I do not know if that is the case here. Keep your powder dry.

 

[N3YMY]

"- Fixes interstate travel laws for sportsmen who transport their firearms across state lines in a responsible manner. The term "transport" includes staying in temporary lodging overnight, stopping for food, buying fuel, vehicle maintenance, and medical treatment."


WOW ... This may really be a compromise ...

Triple dog dare you to test that in NJ...

 

[Brooklyn]

I know a lot of pro-2A people want to find 'common ground' and be seen by the masses as being 'sensible' by compromising with regards to legislation.

Remember that, no matter how they package it, it's still Gun Control or, as Dan Bongino said, 'People Control.' If the anti-2A crowd is willing to accept a piece of legislation, they MUST believe that it furthers their cause, either immediately or by providing a future opportunity.

Does anyone know the last time Congress 'gave back' some 2A rights that were restricted? Every 'compromise' moves the nation closer to the ultimate anti-2A goal...

Or they need to save face. Most ofvwhatvthey want is DOA. The potus fronted for this and gave us shotgun Joe to prove that he knew it was dead. But now he needs something.

Post heller there are 14a substantive due process challenges to be made and won in regards to mental heath and other federal firearm disabilities.

Not challenged does not mean upheld. Most of what I find objectionable in this bill has serious contitional problems even under current binding president.

So while I would be happier if we could tell the antis to pound sand we may need to do that in court.

Meanwhile the gun control issue may help us retake the us senate

Md is not like the rest of the country. It hurts us here to be taking gun control imho , but it may just help retire Reid of Nevada

 

[JohnnyE]

the description in the bill text says "medical professional"

So I figure they can spin it to include anyone. Doctors of all stripes, Dentists, RNs, LPNs EMTs

Wouldn't it suck if your neighbor was a Pediatrician, you got into a fence dispute, and he or she hit you in the gun safe?

Heck, you can't have your driver's license taken away unless you're charged with something, been before a judge, and lost. I can't believe that one doctor's say-so should be enough to have your 2A rights yanked. Yeah, felons can lose a variety of rights...because they've been convicted of something first!

 

[ddeanjohnson]

I don't have time to look it up right now, but I'd be interested to know if the "buying a gun on the internet" NICS requirement includes things like using the classifieds here, or exchanging e-mails with another local gun enthusiast when buying or trading. The way the news made it sound the bill was only looking to preserve "relatives and neighbors" in ftf sales.

You asked for it, and here it is -- the actual text of the Manchin-Toomey Amendment.