Obama releases list of gun control EA's - 41P is on it.

[jmcgonig]

When do the NFA Trust rules come into effect?

 

[Drmsparks]

When do the NFA Trust rules come into effect?

180 days after publishing....

 

[gamer_jim]

10. Get information from the Social Security Administration on mental health issues for the purpose of disqualifying some people from owning a gun. Net effect: this is DANGEROUS, as it can strip people of their right to own a gun WITHOUT DUE PROCESS. A very tiny minority of those with mental health issues are dangerous. Just because you let someone else balance your checkbook doesn’t mean you should not be able to own a gun, but that’s what Obama is doing. Obama is casting a huge net for the purpose of catching what actually boils down to a handful of people.

Thank you for posting this.

Regarding #10. I wonder if this sort of stuff will affect military who had PTSD, went through counseling and are now fine.

Further more, I wonder if this will finally persuade people like my brother in-law who is in the military and had PTSD to not vote Democrate anymore.

 

[magnetic1]

EO analysis from another site:

Here is a link to details on the new Obama Executive Orders. (Thanks to member Joseph Gunter for the link):

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...tive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our

or

http://tinyurl.com/j767ler

—


ANALYSIS

3. Requiring everyone in an NFA trust to have a background check. This will have ZERO effect on crime, as criminals are NOT setting up trusts to buy NFA items! No one has been killed with a lawfully owned machine gun since the 1970s, when a police officer murdered his wife with one. This is simply a waste of time - doing something just to do something. Net effect: all those who are part of an NFA trust must have a background check.

They forgot fingerprinting and notification of CLEO. If you want to bypass this and there was no change in your trust in past 24 months, you still need certification from CLEO.

 

[Drmsparks]

not certification. Notification. Just like with a C&R license.

 

[magnetic1]

not certification. Notification. Just like with a C&R license.

From what I read, and unless Im interpreting it incorrectly, it said if you dont want to get printed again, you have to certify that no changes were made to the trust. That has to be done by local DA, CLEO, etc.

From the ATF ruling: https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download

Page 18:

"Require the applicant to attach to the application:
• Documentation evidencing the existence and validity of the entity, which includes complete and unredacted copies of partnership agreements, articles of incorporation, corporate registration, declarations of trust, with any trust schedules, attachments, exhibits, and enclosures; however, ifthe entity had an application approved as a maker or transferee within the preceding 24 months, and there had been no change to the documentation previously provided, the entity may provide a certification that the information has not changed since the prior approval and must identify the application for which the documentation had been submitted by form number, serial number, and date approved; "

Page 19:

"In accordance with the instructions provided on Form 5320.23, a certification for each responsible person completed by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor, or such other person whose certification may in a particular case be acceptable to the Director. The certification for each responsible person must be completed by the CLEO who has jurisdiction over the area in which the responsible person resides. The certification must state that the official is satisfied that the fingerprints and photograph accompanying the application are those of the responsible person and that the certifying official has no information indicating that possession of the firearm by the responsible person would be in violation of State or local law."

 

[Drmsparks]

Based on what you are saying they didn't get rid of CLEO signature at all, just changed it from approval to certification. That means everyone on the trust has to meet with the CLEO to get the certification?

 

[Vile Shadow]

Based on what you are saying they didn't get rid of CLEO signature at all, just changed it from approval to certification. That means everyone on the trust has to meet with the CLEO to get the certification?

What's the difference?

 

[magnetic1]

What's the difference?

Difference is they arent granting/denying anymore. They are just certifying that the fingerprints and photos are of the "responsible person" on the trust/corp/etc docs.

 

[Drmsparks]

yes but look at who has to do the certification of identification.

a certification for each responsible person completed by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor, or such other person whose certification may in a particular case be acceptable to the Director

How much time do they have to do it? What procedures are in place? If your reading is correct than all NFA paperwork stops. period. How can they certify? do they need to meet the people? that reading is a nightmare.

 

[dreadpirate]

Based on post #101, it looks like a lot of this is a so what. I wonder if the Left is going to say it's a disappointment, and the Right is going to say (and rightfully so) it's ridiculous. I think this is going to be a lose lose for Obama.

 

[dontpanic]

From what I read, and unless Im interpreting it incorrectly, it said if you dont want to get printed again, you have to certify that no changes were made to the trust. That has to be done by local DA, CLEO, etc.

From the ATF ruling: https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download

Page 18:

"Require the applicant to attach to the application:
• Documentation evidencing the existence and validity of the entity, which includes complete and unredacted copies of partnership agreements, articles of incorporation, corporate registration, declarations of trust, with any trust schedules, attachments, exhibits, and enclosures; however, ifthe entity had an application approved as a maker or transferee within the preceding 24 months, and there had been no change to the documentation previously provided, the entity may provide a certification that the information has not changed since the prior approval and must identify the application for which the documentation had been submitted by form number, serial number, and date approved; "

Page 19:

"In accordance with the instructions provided on Form 5320.23, a certification for each responsible person completed by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor, or such other person whose certification may in a particular case be acceptable to the Director. The certification for each responsible person must be completed by the CLEO who has jurisdiction over the area in which the responsible person resides. The certification must state that the official is satisfied that the fingerprints and photograph accompanying the application are those of the responsible person and that the certifying official has no information indicating that possession of the firearm by the responsible person would be in violation of State or local law."

Page 18 and 19 are proposed rules. They were originally proposed and commented on. Many of them did not make it, including CLEO sign off and notification in the change of trustees.

The actual passed rules start around pg 230. And does not include CLEO sign off. It also removes CLEO sign off for individuals.

 

[magnetic1]

Page 18 and 19 are proposed rules. They were originally proposed and commented on. Many of them did not make it, including CLEO sign off and notification in the change of trustees.

The actual passed rules start around pg 230. And does not include CLEO sign off. It also removes CLEO sign off for individuals.

Thanks dontpanic... Ill have to skip to pg230 and read from there!

If youve read it and know, what happens if you already have a trust that is unchanged in past 24 months and you want to get a new NFA item?

OK, just read it. Looks like everything is same with regard to getting printed, etc but instead of the CLEO having to certify that nothing has changed in the trust, you just have to notify them of the submission and that nothing has changed.

Is that the correct reading?

 

[dontpanic]

Thanks dontpanic... Ill have to skip to pg230 and read from there!

If youve read it and know, what happens if you already have a trust that is unchanged in past 24 months and you want to get a new NFA item?

No problem. I just looked it up. It's on pg227.

For your question. This takes affect 180 days after publishing(not published yet). Thier are no changes until that time.

This will not apply to pending applications

No good answer yet on if you can bypass the prints and pics requirement by using a item approved prior to this taking effect. My guess is that they will make everyone send in pics and prints at least once.

The pic and print requirement only applies if you are filing an application for a new item. There is no requirement to file them for items already in your trust.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mark75H]

11. Change HIPAA laws to allow states to share “certain” information from a person’s health records. Net effect: this is DANGEROUS, as it can strip people of the right to own a gun WITHOUT DUE PROCESS. No cookie cutter, bureaucratically controlled, examination of a person’s medical records should be used to strip someone of any of their rights without DUE PROCESS!

The Executive Branch cannot change law.

This may end up with a court challenge.

 

[smokey]

So with obama making a big public stink about guns, who would be shocked if the news overflowed with reporting of a new shooting sometime this week? This administration seems to have a lot of convenient events take place for it.

 

[Norton]

They won't. The only reason this is being done is to make it appear as though they are being tough on guns. If left unchecked, they'll change the threshold so you'll need a license to sell or buy one gun. Keep taking a small slice of the pie until eventually there is none left. It's all about eroding our rights a little bit at a time. Eventually all those who hold a license will be forced to turn them in or face prosecution. He's doing everything he thinks he can get away with now while sounding "reasonable".

Bingo.

The thing I'm seeing is that without definition of what constitutes "being in the business of" they know that they can't yet stop FTF sales without there being quite literally a revolt and because he can't unilaterally create law, so they just throw the specter of the BATFE swooping in with their capricious definitions from the enforcement end.

 

[Norton]

It appears Trustees have to submit a Form, P.P. Photo, and Prints every 2 years.

This is for new purchases only, yes?

 

[Norton]

By the way - for those that doubt that we are watched by reporters and LE despite the repeated reminders that we are, I received an email from a Capital Gazette reporter yesterday as a result of her having read this thread as well as others related to O's folly.

 

[dontpanic]

This is for new purchases only, yes?

Yes