Obama releases list of gun control EA's - 41P is on it.

[Boom Boom]

None of the above. All they are doing is threatening people who sell occasionally face to face. If you sell "enough" to be a dealer, then you need an FFL with a store front which meets local zoning regulations. They don't define what "enough" is, but they do make the threat that it could be as little as two. They aren't implementing an FFL program for gun show only or kitchen table dealers.

It's important to read between the lines. The point of it is to arbitrarily criminalize FTF sales (outside of law) for as few as one gun if the seller doesn't have an FFL01. FFL03 isn't good enough since you need an FFL01 to call in background checks. The administration knows full well that ATF will never approve an FFL01 for the average Joe who does not have a storefront but sells a personal gun FTF every now and then. Net effect is basically a de facto ban on FTF sales under threat of arrest by way of EA. The intent is to force private sales through FFL dealers, which registers the gun, is inconvenient, and adds a significant cost hurdle.

 

[Norton]

The odd thing about Trusts is its been a requirement to do a NICS for the person picking up the NFA item, for years.

Just made that point to someone elsewhere. They want to make it sound like a trust is some shadowy way around any kind of a background check when it reality all it does is to avoid the ******** requirements of the fingerprints and CLEO sign off.

Total smoke and mirrors here, but it gives the appearance of having "done something"

 

[Norton]

This whole thing looks like it was cooked up by Brian Frosh and the rest of the Maryland crew:

-Really accomplishes nothing, but gives the appearance of having done something.
-Vague terms, ill-defined measures of what constitutes "in the business of"
-scary penalties related to the vague terms that force people into self-compliance because we're the people that have things to lose
-does nothing, absolutely nothing, to stop the bad guys who are already violating a good chunk of the existing 20k gun laws on the books.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Infringement.

More.

Infringement.

On the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.

On the legal system and due process.

On the system of checks and balances...Congress owns this coming and going. Their ineffectiveness beg for this (and others) type of illegal and ill advised Executive over reach.

For shame.

 

[OnTarget]

It's important to read between the lines. The point of it is to arbitrarily criminalize FTF sales (outside of law) for as few as one gun if the seller doesn't have an FFL01. FFL03 isn't good enough since you need an FFL01 to call in background checks. The administration knows full well that ATF will never approve an FFL01 for the average Joe who does not have a storefront but sells a personal gun FTF every now and then. Net effect is basically a de facto ban on FTF sales under threat of arrest by way of EA. The intent is to force private sales through FFL dealers, which registers the gun, is inconvenient, and adds a significant cost hurdle.

...and cost too.

 

[OnTarget]

Just made that point to someone elsewhere. They want to make it sound like a trust is some shadowy way around any kind of a background check when it reality all it does is to avoid the ******** requirements of the fingerprints and CLEO sign off.

Total smoke and mirrors here, but it gives the appearance of having "done something"

I don't know, Norton, it looks to me look they're doing quite a lot.

 

[hodgepodge]

I just donated to the NRA-ILA.

 

[pbharvey]

I just donated to the NRA-ILA.

This

 

[Norton]

I don't know, Norton, it looks to me look they're doing quite a lot.

What has any of this really done from a crime prevention standpoint that one of the other 20k existing laws doesn't cover?

 

[danb]

Final rule NFA trust - no CLEO sign off

Which may very well mean fingerprints for all listed just as if you were an individual.. Fun! We'll know more soon.

Did I miss something on the trust front. I t looks to me that they are only looking for back round checks on the trusties.

Sorry, my optimism got the best of me for a moment.

Or even worse. CLEO sign off. BTW in MD, at least, a NICS check is conducted when you pick up your NFA item.

https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download

H/T http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...es-fingerprints-but-eliminates-cleo-sign-off/

This final rule defines the term "responsible person," as used in reference to a trust, partnership, association, company, or corporation; requires responsible persons of such trusts or legal entities to complete a specified form and to submit photographs and fingerprints when the trust or legal entity files an application to make an NF A firearm or is listed as the transferee on an application to transfer an NF A firearm; requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO.

Final rule: No CLEO sign off.

Everyone gets fingerprinted.

I did not read the whole thing, not clear what happens to existing trusts.

 

[Mr H]

"...no numerical threshold of sales" -- Breitbart, Jan.4, 2016

Too, the future stage is for larger gun controls.

Hearing this morning (unverified) that the number of sales in a year that would make you a 'dealer' is anything over 2

 

[mac1_131]

This whole thing looks like it was cooked up by Brian Frosh and the rest of the Maryland crew:

-Really accomplishes nothing, but gives the appearance of having done something.
-Vague terms, ill-defined measures of what constitutes "in the business of"
-scary penalties related to the vague terms that force people into self-compliance because we're the people that have things to lose
-does nothing, absolutely nothing, to stop the bad guys who are already violating a good chunk of the existing 20k gun laws on the books.

My thoughts exactly. I was thinking Owe'Malley the whole time I was reading this thing.

Yes, further infringement, yes slippery slope. But really does not accomplish a whole lot that would effect us here in MD.

Reading ATF publication 5310.2 January 2016 edition I still don't see anything that would stop the type of FTF sales we are allowed to still do in MD. Even plenty of examples of such given in that document, assuming the January 2016 edition incorporates the current changes, which it appears to do.

However, other states where gun shows have lots of regular joes selling to each other using their CCW to permit FTF handgun sales will be affected big time by this. Not so much here in MD. (Not that I am against this type of sale, as I said, further infringement...)

I think the greater danger for us here is MD is to embolden the MGA to echo some of this in MD law this session, and hopefully if that were to occur then the Governor would have the chutzpah to veto it.

 

[Norton]

Hearing this morning (unverified) that the number of sales in a year that would make you a 'dealer' is anything over 2

Which begs the question of how they would know how many sales you've made out of your collection since the individual sales themselves are still legal, per se.

In other words, without tracking what you have bought to what you currently own, how will they know about the individual sales if they are each independently legal?

 

[Uncle Duke]

"Two" probably referencing back to the text.

No clarification of what "other factors" may have made one or two transactions "dealing". Between the lines message appears to be that "dealing" is whatever the hell they decide to say it is.

No doubt ambiguous and scary by design.


For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.
◦ There are criminal penalties for failing to comply with these requirements. A person who willfully engages in the business of dealing in firearms without the required license is subject to criminal prosecution and can be sentenced up to five years in prison and fined up to $250,000. Dealers are also subject to penalties for failing to conduct background checks before completing a sale.

 

[good guy 176]

I held a FFL03 for 6 years and let it expire in 2011. I'd received an unannounced visit from two Baltimore ATx babes after I'd used the license only one time, around 2005. They showed up at our doorstep that morning, flashed a badge and started asking questions to test my knowledge of their regs.

Still not sure why they chose me, but I've never ever heard of an unannounced inspection. It might have been a training session for one of them. They were here for about 20 minutes and never asked to see my records and I did not invite them inside...whole session was done on the street and I was given a written copy that documented the meeting.

A few years later, I got a call from another ATx person, and he, apparently, was auditing one of my buyers and wanted to verify/identify a M1 Carbine that I'd sold to that individual.

For these reasons, I chose not to continue holding a FFL03 and am very glad that I let it lapse.

ATx is not on our side. I don't trust them and I am done with them

Lew--Ranger63

 

[rbird7282]

Which begs the question of how they would know how many sales you've made out of your collection since the individual sales themselves are still legal, per se.



In other words, without tracking what you have bought to what you currently own, how will they know about the individual sales if they are each independently legal?

They won't. The only reason this is being done is to make it appear as though they are being tough on guns. If left unchecked, they'll change the threshold so you'll need a license to sell or buy one gun. Keep taking a small slice of the pie until eventually there is none left. It's all about eroding our rights a little bit at a time. Eventually all those who hold a license will be forced to turn them in or face prosecution. He's doing everything he thinks he can get away with now while sounding "reasonable".
Asshat scumbag Socialist. 2016 can't come fast enough.
Only hope is the next President reverses the EO's with the stroke of a pen. I don't see that happening though, I have very little faith in Republicans these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Second Amendment]

Some real colorful tidbits in there.

I had no idea a shorter barrel makes a shotgun more dangerous.

Same thinking that makes an HBAR AR less lethal.

 

[Mike OTDP]

I know. I've long advocated for a citizens FFL, even without the ability to make secondary sales.

A Personal FFL would make WAY too much sense, especially with the Internet as a major sales source.

 

[AssMan]

Hearing this morning (unverified) that the number of sales in a year that would make you a 'dealer' is anything over 2

How does anyone know how many sales you have made?

 

[AssMan]

King Hussein Obuttstank to speak at 11:40. No "Pool Spray" this time

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog#today