No good deed goes unpunished in MD?

[epoxy45]

MD sucks. Move to PA or Florida...

 

[rick3d]

Talk to NAGR. This maybe grounds to challenge a law in Maryland.

 

[Chooch]

Cooter’s is awesome, you took them to the right place. Martin is a good dude! Good luck OP, I hope you get your stuff back.

[ QUOTE=Ciditad;5713170]Per request this is what I gave up:

as you may gather I'm a German/Italian fan.

I have already been talking to Ed Hershon but he apparently is very busy and couldn't call me Tuesday as planned so I'll follow up with him next week. After reading your comments I'm more cautiously optimistic about my chances now, hopefully it'll be cleared up soon.[/QUOTE]

 

[172pilot]

I struggle to write so descriptively and clearly. ......
These commie states like Maryland suck donkey balls.

That was pretty descriptive, clear, and accurate! :-)

 

[thanatron]

I’m a transplant from CA. Have owned handguns all my adult life after turning 21, and never had an issue in CA. Moved to MD and wanted to do the right thing and follow the law by getting my HQL (approved and received), and then proceed to fill out 77R for all the LEGALLY OBTAINED handguns I owned after getting my HQL.

A few days later a trooper emailed me and said the application was being denied, and that I cannot legally own those handguns. Turns out I had a minor misdemeanor (computer related, max sentence 1 year and $2000 fine; not hacking/gun/violence/theft/sex or anything very serious etc.) that I had plead no contest to 20 years ago to avoid a lengthy and costly trial, paid $100 fine and probation, and the case was dismissed a few months later - since then I haven’t even had a moving violation. In CA, the dismissal is basically considered an expungement and since it was a minor misdemeanor my right to own handguns were never an issue in CA. However, in MD the dismissal is not considered, and the same computer related charge carries a maximum sentence of 3 years and therefore I am a criminal who shouldn’t own guns in the eyes of the great state of Maryland.

I got notification on Friday that it was denied, and on Monday I started calling around local gun shops to see where I can drop my handguns off so they’re off my possession, and the place I usually go to is closed on Monday. Tuesday morning, around 6am, 2 heavily armed troopers knocked on my door and seeing that nobody answered the door, left. I got a call from that trooper and I told him I was going to drop all my guns off at a local gun shop that I liked, and in the afternoon I took care of it and gave up my prized possessions, including one mint condition H&K P7M8 still in its original case. I sent the receipt for all my guns that I had given up, and I’m told the case is closed. Wowza!

Also my HQL is revoked, so I mailed it back today. Having had it for less than 2 weeks....

Now that I’m unarmed except for a baseball bat for the first time in over 20 years, I’m left feeling somewhat naked, and wondering what the hell went wrong? The Feds, through many years of NICS checks when buying firearms and the very anal state that CA is, I have always been allowed to exercise my 2A right. In MD all of a sudden I’ve lost my 2A right? I am a law abiding, tax paying, contributing member of this society, and I can’t believe what just happened to me.

I’ve been in contact with an attorney to see what my options are, but I’m not optimistic about my chances of appealing the decision. The trooper who denied my 77R was very nice and walked me through all the options available, including asking the CA governor for a pardon, which I don’t think will happen (rarely given, 4-5 people get it a year, I looked). So my current options are:

1) Move to PA or another state where my dismissal is not an issue
2) Suck it up
3) Take legal action

I don’t mind taking legal action if there’s a 50/50 chance I’ll get my 2A right back.

I’m only posting this because I’m frustrated and want to vent. Your virtual emotional support is greatly appreciated.

What was the computer crime charge??

 

[kege1]

I’m a transplant from CA. Have owned handguns all my adult life after turning 21, and never had an issue in CA. Moved to MD and wanted to do the right thing and follow the law by getting my HQL (approved and received), and then proceed to fill out 77R for all the LEGALLY OBTAINED handguns I owned after getting my HQL.

A few days later a trooper emailed me and said the application was being denied, and that I cannot legally own those handguns. Turns out I had a minor misdemeanor (computer related, max sentence 1 year and $2000 fine; not hacking/gun/violence/theft/sex or anything very serious etc.) that I had plead no contest to 20 years ago to avoid a lengthy and costly trial, paid $100 fine and probation, and the case was dismissed a few months later - since then I haven’t even had a moving violation. In CA, the dismissal is basically considered an expungement and since it was a minor misdemeanor my right to own handguns were never an issue in CA. However, in MD the dismissal is not considered, and the same computer related charge carries a maximum sentence of 3 years and therefore I am a criminal who shouldn’t own guns in the eyes of the great state of Maryland.

I got notification on Friday that it was denied, and on Monday I started calling around local gun shops to see where I can drop my handguns off so they’re off my possession, and the place I usually go to is closed on Monday. Tuesday morning, around 6am, 2 heavily armed troopers knocked on my door and seeing that nobody answered the door, left. I got a call from that trooper and I told him I was going to drop all my guns off at a local gun shop that I liked, and in the afternoon I took care of it and gave up my prized possessions, including one mint condition H&K P7M8 still in its original case. I sent the receipt for all my guns that I had given up, and I’m told the case is closed. Wowza!

Also my HQL is revoked, so I mailed it back today. Having had it for less than 2 weeks....

Now that I’m unarmed except for a baseball bat for the first time in over 20 years, I’m left feeling somewhat naked, and wondering what the hell went wrong? The Feds, through many years of NICS checks when buying firearms and the very anal state that CA is, I have always been allowed to exercise my 2A right. In MD all of a sudden I’ve lost my 2A right? I am a law abiding, tax paying, contributing member of this society, and I can’t believe what just happened to me.

I’ve been in contact with an attorney to see what my options are, but I’m not optimistic about my chances of appealing the decision. The trooper who denied my 77R was very nice and walked me through all the options available, including asking the CA governor for a pardon, which I don’t think will happen (rarely given, 4-5 people get it a year, I looked). So my current options are:

1) Move to PA or another state where my dismissal is not an issue
2) Suck it up
3) Take legal action

I don’t mind taking legal action if there’s a 50/50 chance I’ll get my 2A right back.

I’m only posting this because I’m frustrated and want to vent. Your virtual emotional support is greatly appreciated.

Have the record expunged and appeal, GOOD LUCK!

 

[rcreynolds]

MD

If you can, avoid living in MD. Del, Pa and Va are more free.

 

[eagledriver]

I'm not sure how much longer VA is going to be 2A kind with the increase in Dem rulers; check into Virginia senate bill 64 on National 2A Issues forum ~

 

[Boats]

Have the record expunged and appeal, GOOD LUCK!

there is no expungement in CA

 

[esqappellate]

I’m a transplant from CA. Have owned handguns all my adult life after turning 21, and never had an issue in CA. Moved to MD and wanted to do the right thing and follow the law by getting my HQL (approved and received), and then proceed to fill out 77R for all the LEGALLY OBTAINED handguns I owned after getting my HQL.

A few days later a trooper emailed me and said the application was being denied, and that I cannot legally own those handguns. Turns out I had a minor misdemeanor (computer related, max sentence 1 year and $2000 fine; not hacking/gun/violence/theft/sex or anything very serious etc.) that I had plead no contest to 20 years ago to avoid a lengthy and costly trial, paid $100 fine and probation, and the case was dismissed a few months later - since then I haven’t even had a moving violation. In CA, the dismissal is basically considered an expungement and since it was a minor misdemeanor my right to own handguns were never an issue in CA. However, in MD the dismissal is not considered, and the same computer related charge carries a maximum sentence of 3 years and therefore I am a criminal who shouldn’t own guns in the eyes of the great state of Maryland.

I got notification on Friday that it was denied, and on Monday I started calling around local gun shops to see where I can drop my handguns off so they’re off my possession, and the place I usually go to is closed on Monday. Tuesday morning, around 6am, 2 heavily armed troopers knocked on my door and seeing that nobody answered the door, left. I got a call from that trooper and I told him I was going to drop all my guns off at a local gun shop that I liked, and in the afternoon I took care of it and gave up my prized possessions, including one mint condition H&K P7M8 still in its original case. I sent the receipt for all my guns that I had given up, and I’m told the case is closed. Wowza!

Also my HQL is revoked, so I mailed it back today. Having had it for less than 2 weeks....

Now that I’m unarmed except for a baseball bat for the first time in over 20 years, I’m left feeling somewhat naked, and wondering what the hell went wrong? The Feds, through many years of NICS checks when buying firearms and the very anal state that CA is, I have always been allowed to exercise my 2A right. In MD all of a sudden I’ve lost my 2A right? I am a law abiding, tax paying, contributing member of this society, and I can’t believe what just happened to me.

I’ve been in contact with an attorney to see what my options are, but I’m not optimistic about my chances of appealing the decision. The trooper who denied my 77R was very nice and walked me through all the options available, including asking the CA governor for a pardon, which I don’t think will happen (rarely given, 4-5 people get it a year, I looked). So my current options are:

1) Move to PA or another state where my dismissal is not an issue
2) Suck it up
3) Take legal action

I don’t mind taking legal action if there’s a 50/50 chance I’ll get my 2A right back.

I’m only posting this because I’m frustrated and want to vent. Your virtual emotional support is greatly appreciated.

In Maryland, it doesn't matter what the sentence was or could be in the other state. What matters is whether the disqualifying conviction from another state is a violation that would be classified in Maryland
as misdemeanor that carried statutory penalty of more than two years. The case is Brown v. HPRB, 188 Md.App. 455, 982 A.2d 830 (2009). Attached.

Without know what you were convicted of in California, I can only imagine that the MD counterpart might be MD Code, Criminal Law, § 7-302, pertaining to unauthorized access to computers and related material. It has a 3 year imprisonment penalty. Also attached.

A Court of Appeals decision interpreting a prior version of this section is Briggs v. State, 348 Md. 470 (1998). The statute was amended in 1998 after Briggs to prohibit access that exceeds that authorized and thus overrule Briggs.

 

[fabsroman]

In Maryland, it doesn't matter what the sentence was or could be in the other state. What matters is whether the disqualifying conviction from another state is a violation that would be classified in Maryland
as misdemeanor that carried statutory penalty of more than two years. The case is Brown v. HPRB, 188 Md.App. 455, 982 A.2d 830 (2009). Attached.

Without know what you were convicted of in California, I can only imagine that the MD counterpart might be MD Code, Criminal Law, § 7-302, pertaining to unauthorized access to computers and related material. It has a 3 year imprisonment penalty. Also attached.

A Court of Appeals decision interpreting a prior version of this section is Briggs v. State, 348 Md. 470 (1998). The statute was amended in 1998 after Briggs to prohibit access that exceeds that authorized and thus overrule Briggs.

If the Court of Appeals has already opined on this matter, then what course of action does the OP even have other than taking this to the federal level and hoping for a SCOTUS opinion that says the ruling in Brown is unconstitutional based upon...........

Mark, what do you think the OP's chances are in state court? My guess is pretty slim based upon what you wrote. Only avenue would be federal court it seems.

OP - how much money are you willing to spend on this matter? Maybe MSI, NRA, etc. will be willing to bank roll it or Hershon needs some pro bono.

 

[Squaregrouper]

In Maryland, it doesn't matter what the sentence was or could be in the other state. What matters is whether the disqualifying conviction from another state is a violation that would be classified in Maryland
as misdemeanor that carried statutory penalty of more than two years. The case is Brown v. HPRB, 188 Md.App. 455, 982 A.2d 830 (2009). Attached.

Without know what you were convicted of in California, I can only imagine that the MD counterpart might be MD Code, Criminal Law, § 7-302, pertaining to unauthorized access to computers and related material. It has a 3 year imprisonment penalty. Also attached.

A Court of Appeals decision interpreting a prior version of this section is Briggs v. State, 348 Md. 470 (1998). The statute was amended in 1998 after Briggs to prohibit access that exceeds that authorized and thus overrule Briggs.

If the Court of Appeals has already opined on this matter, then what course of action does the OP even have other than taking this to the federal level and hoping for a SCOTUS opinion that says the ruling in Brown is unconstitutional based upon...........

Mark, what do you think the OP's chances are in state court? My guess is pretty slim based upon what you wrote. Only avenue would be federal court it seems.

OP - how much money are you willing to spend on this matter? Maybe MSI, NRA, etc. will be willing to bank roll it or Hershon needs some pro bono.

Counselors,
In post #8, the OP mentioned he has CA's PC1203.4 relief, which I then read into and appears to be an overturn of a guilty verdict upon completion of probation; not unlike PBJ in Maryland.
I think his guilty plea being overturned by CA would mean he is not prohibited, yet the guilty verdict is still showing up in some database.
Thoughts?

 

[esqappellate]

If the Court of Appeals has already opined on this matter, then what course of action does the OP even have other than taking this to the federal level and hoping for a SCOTUS opinion that says the ruling in Brown is unconstitutional based upon...........

Mark, what do you think the OP's chances are in state court? My guess is pretty slim based upon what you wrote. Only avenue would be federal court it seems.

OP - how much money are you willing to spend on this matter? Maybe MSI, NRA, etc. will be willing to bank roll it or Hershon needs some pro bono.

Without giving legal advice, I gotta think the odds of prevailing in state court are virtually none, given the comprehensive reasoning of Brown and the AG opinion it references. Now Brown is just a decision of the Court of Special Appeals, but cert was denied and it hasn't been since questioned. Brown does leave expressly open the question of when the comparison to MD law is made, viz., MD law at the time of the out of state conviction, or current MD law. Can't opine on that issue without more facts. The AG's opinion is apparently current MD law. State Ex Post Facto law might bear on that point, as it is broader than federal prohibition. I've researched that issue.

Potentially, probably the best claim would be a Binderup type suit in federal court, claiming that the disqualification is unconstitutional as applied to him. The Fourth Circuit has been hostile to those types of claims, but has left the door ajar a bit for misdemeanors. See Hamilton v. Pallozzi, 848 F.3d 614, 626 n.11 (4th Cir. 2017), cert. denied 138 S.Ct. 500 (2017). Alan Gura is expert in those cases. Federal law does not preempt State gun law. 18 U.S.C. 927. And there is no apparent conflict with federal law in any event. In short, a pardon in California (or expungement) or a Binderup claim in federal court are pretty much his only options. Or move out of Maryland to a state that does not have this issue. Getting his guns back doesn't look legally at all likely. Since he is a prohibited person in MD, he should take great care to avoid any actual or constructive possession of guns in MD. This is NOT legal advice.

PS: Brown was followed and adopted in 2012 by the Court of Appeals in McCloud v. Department of State Police, Handgun Permit Review Bd., 426 Md. 473 (2012). So the argument that Brown was wrongly decided is pretty much precluded.

 

[esqappellate]

Counselors,
In post #8, the OP mentioned he has CA's PC1203.4 relief, which I then read into and appears to be an overturn of a guilty verdict upon completion of probation; not unlike PBJ in Maryland.
I think his guilty plea being overturned by CA would mean he is not prohibited, yet the guilty verdict is still showing up in some database.
Thoughts?

That would turn on questions of California law, which I have not not looked into.

 

[tailgunner]

WELCOME TO MD, COMMUNIST STATE.

 

[fabsroman]

Counselors,
In post #8, the OP mentioned he has CA's PC1203.4 relief, which I then read into and appears to be an overturn of a guilty verdict upon completion of probation; not unlike PBJ in Maryland.
I think his guilty plea being overturned by CA would mean he is not prohibited, yet the guilty verdict is still showing up in some database.
Thoughts?

Does not look like it works exactly the same as in Maryland. Here is a pretty good explanation of it. Note that one of the things it will not do, is reinstate the ability to possess firearms.

https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/public_defender/expungement.html

Remember, Probation Before Judgment means that a guilty finding is never entered on the record. The person is granted Probation, before the judgment. With the OP, he was found guilty, a guilty verdict was entered, and then he was able to "expunge" it under California law. Thing is, a guilty verdict in Maryland cannot be expunged unless the Governor grants a pardon first.

While the two look somewhat alike, they aren't the same thing. Believe somebody else already mentioned that there is no PBJ in California.

 

[bluedog46]

Is that crap state specific or is it just MD is too strict? I thought that the federal government decides who is and is not prohibited?

 

[Joshua]

Can i copy your story? This is crazy :/. Id like to share it on FB i wont include your name.

 

[esqappellate]

Does not look like it works exactly the same as in Maryland. Here is a pretty good explanation of it. Note that one of the things it will not do, is reinstate the ability to possess firearms.

https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/public_defender/expungement.html

Remember, Probation Before Judgment means that a guilty finding is never entered on the record. The person is granted Probation, before the judgment. With the OP, he was found guilty, a guilty verdict was entered, and then he was able to "expunge" it under California law. Thing is, a guilty verdict in Maryland cannot be expunged unless the Governor grants a pardon first.

While the two look somewhat alike, they aren't the same thing. Believe somebody else already mentioned that there is no PBJ in California.

Right. And attached is the California statute. Clearly not the same as a pardon.

 

[fabsroman]

Is that crap state specific or is it just MD is too strict? I thought that the federal government decides who is and is not prohibited?

It is state specific. Federal government has not banned assault weapons, but Maryland has. Maryland has also made it more difficult to purchase a handgun (a/k/a regulated firearm) by requiring an HQL and a separate background check from the MSP. Just because you pass a NICS check in Maryland does not mean you are getting a handgun.

Maryland could decide to outlaw the possession of all firearms. Only thing that would prevent that is the 2nd Amendment.

Guess the question ends up being, at what point is the law prohibiting somebody from possessing a firearm too much of an infringement? When they make it that a person convicted of jay-walking is prohibited?

Only reason a person should be prohibited from possessing a firearm is if they are in prison or mentally incompetent IMO. However, I guess I could live with a person being prohibited if they are mentally incompetent or if they committed a crime of violence that required mens rea.