MSP denials

[scottyfz6]

MSP considers anything but “yes” to be a false statement on an official application and grounds for denial. (Even if the offense on the record isn’t disqualifying.)

That’s where the discrepancy rises- application says “no” to the questions “have you EVER been arrested/charged/convicted?”

I am kind of a funny middle ground, I have something on my record that is not disqualifying, and not expungeable. I listed it. ( county level charge not able to be expunged )

I also have an expungement that would have been disqualifying, but was expunged and I did not list it. ( wrong place wrong time, found guilty 18 month max misd iirc none given)

I got approved quickly ( I am one of the first 25 day people ). Now I also sent in the expungement when I got my hql years ago so they might have already cleared that.

 

[BurkeM]

so i have nothing else ever in my life and was denied this is all that it could be and it doesnt show on case search so could it be the way i awnsered question on the app with no

The disapproval letter spells out exactly what the reason was. If you haven’t received the letter yet, email MSP.Handgunpermits@Maryland.gov with your application number in the Subject line, and ask WHY you were disapproved and request an informal review.

 

[BurkeM]

I am kind of a funny middle ground, I have something on my record that is not disqualifying, and not expungeable. I listed it. ( county level charge not able to be expunged )

I also have an expungement that would have been disqualifying, but was expunged and I did not list it. ( wrong place wrong time, found guilty 18 month max misd iirc none given)

I got approved quickly ( I am one of the first 25 day people ). Now I also sent in the expungement when I got my hql years ago so they might have already cleared that.

I can’t imagine what a county level charge is that can’t be expunged, unless it’s recent.

Expungement (Adult) | Maryland Courts

mdcourts.gov

 

[krzfirefighter02]

Citations remain on your records UNLESS you formally request the records be expunged.

Expungement (Adult) | Maryland Courts

mdcourts.gov

ok where do i get the info for the citation cause md case search no longer shows it ,also then do i reapply ?i also requested a informal review cause im still unsure thats what it is but im also confuseed it didnt stop me getting my hql or any purchase i have made
thanks for all your help this is super frustating

 

[BurkeM]

ok where do i get the info for the citation cause md case search no longer shows it ,also then do i reapply ?i also requested a informal review cause im still unsure thats what it is but im also confuseed it didnt stop me getting my hql or any purchase i have made
thanks for all your help this is super frustating

The disapproval letter should explain exactly what the problem was.

You should also be receiving a report from CJIS showing what came back from your fingerprints.

 

[anfernys]

Here is something to chew on. If I have my CCW but my wife is prohibited due to felony probation, would I still have the right to carry when with her?

 

[scottyfz6]

I can’t imagine what a county level charge is that can’t be expunged, unless it’s recent.

Reckless discharge of a fire arm not in city limits. Howard county ordnance, not a state charge.

not listed as an expungable charge.

edit target shooting on private property in howard county. Only allowed on approved ranges, cop walked up on me while I was shooting. I paid a 50 buck fine and was guilty, no way to fight it.

 

[BigWilly]

MSP considers anything but “yes” to be a false statement on an official application and grounds for denial. (Even if the offense on the record isn’t disqualifying.)

I’ve walked many people through the informal review and appeal process, usually successfully.

If the Maryland Courts were truly efficient and the expungement was actually executed properly, it would never be an issue. Unfortunately, many people discover that the fingerprint records are NOT expunged at DPSCS/CJIS or FBI/CJIS levels.

That’s where the discrepancy rises- application says “no” to the questions “have you EVER been arrested/charged/convicted?”

Then the investigator sees a record (or two) in the fingerprint reports and the disapproval ball is rolling.

IF you answer “yes,” and explain the record was expunged (and upload the order), the application moves along without discussion or hiccups and approval happens.

(Purists complain that MSP isn’t supposed to ask about expunged records, but there isn’t an effective way to ENSURE that offending agencies and lazy court clerks will actually OBEY the order of the judge.)

So what happens if you put yes to a question and it really is no? Wouldn't that be the same thing? I.e. yes I was charged but nothing comes up in any searches they do is that grounds to deny?

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[BurkeM]

So what happens if you put yes to a question and it really is no? Wouldn't that be the same thing? I.e. yes I was charged but nothing comes up in any searches they do is that grounds to deny?

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No, that’s displaying integrity.

 

[BurkeM]

Reckless discharge of a fire arm not in city limits. Howard county ordnance, not a state charge.

not listed as an expungable charge.

edit target shooting on private property in howard county. Only allowed on approved ranges, cop walked up on me while I was shooting. I paid a 50 buck fine and was guilty, no way to fight it.

On a citation, you could have gone to trial, and left it to a judge. As it is, misdemeanor charges CAN be expunged.

Expungement (Adult) | Maryland Courts

mdcourts.gov

 

[BigWilly]

No, that’s displaying integrity.

How? If you are unsure of it and put yes and then it comes to be nothing found, how is that not the same thing as putting no and something is found?

In this case it was 25 years ago, no record on case search or the clerks office in the same county and no one involved remembers if charges were filed.

Obviously you are well versed in this avenue and I don't mean to come across as anything but respectful. I have gotten so many answers either way. My thought process based on doing as much due diligence as I could, was it is just as bad to put yes when incorrect as to put no when incorrect. What are your thoughts?

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[BurkeM]

How? If you are unsure of it and put yes and then it comes to be nothing found, how is that not the same thing as putting no and something is found?

In this case it was 25 years ago, no record on case search or the clerks office in the same county and no one involved remembers if charges were filed.
. What are your thoughts?

Easy. You were there, you knew what happened. Admitting your past shows integrity and character, things the MSP admire and respect.

They’re used to old records having been expunged and deleted, since the MGA passed numerous liberal amnesty/expungement laws over the past few sessions.

What many expungement laws didn’t do - they don’t remove records retained indefinitely by the FBI and CJIS, even if the court records were never stored in digital formats.

Make sense?

 

[BurkeM]

My brother that applied the same time as I is expecting to get denied now. He has never had anything listed in casesearch. I can confirm this. We just checked for shits and giggles and there is a peace order listed from 2002. Apparently 20 yrs ago he was served a peace order from a girl he dated a few times and he moved on. She called him stating she was preggo months later and asked for money. He obliged. When he asked how she was doing afterwards she stated she had a miscarriage. He asked for his money back and she freaked out. He left it alone. A few days later a peace order came for him. She claimed he choked her and threatened to shoot her with a gun. He was out of town when this was supposed to have happened and he was heading back to TX when the court date was set. He went to court to try to get it postponed due to his travel. They denied it. He asked again and it was denied. He called a lawyer who stated to just let it ride since it would only be a 30 day order and just move on. Apparently this was something she has done to several others.

Well 20 yrs later and it finally shows up. He is not sure why it was never in casesearch.

He answered no to the first question on the app since it was never on his record.

My brother is calm and never has a temper. He just walks away. He didn't even own a firearm until about 10 yrs after the peace order. He is freaking out at the moment as he didn't intend to answer incorrectly and is unsure of the consequences.

Peace order- not a big issue as they aren’t prohibiting factors. His omission may certainly cause closer attention.

Domestic violence and protection orders are a serious issue (see recent Biden speeches) and 18 USC 922(g)(8). If the order is expired, the prohibition from possessing firearms also expires.

 

[dwnthehatch]

Peace order- not a big issue as they aren’t prohibiting factors. His omission may certainly cause closer attention.

Domestic violence and protection orders are a serious issue (see recent Biden speeches) and 18 USC 922(g)(8). If the order is expired, the prohibition from possessing firearms also expires.

He actually called MSP to tell him the situation, they added notes to his account. He's just waiting to hear back from the investigator once assigned. Not much else he can really do I guess. We both are confused as to why casesearch was never updated for 20 yrs. This was in Silver Spring District Court.

 

[BigWilly]

Easy. You were there, you knew what happened. Admitting your past shows integrity and character, things the MSP admire and respect.

They’re used to old records having been expunged and deleted, since the MGA passed numerous liberal amnesty/expungement laws over the past few sessions.

What many expungement laws didn’t do - they don’t remove records retained indefinitely by the FBI and CJIS, even if the court records were never stored in digital formats.

Make sense?

Actually not easy... lol. I got into a fight in high school and I was the only one that was 18. Nobody in my family remembers what happened. I got in trouble with school of course and spoke with a police officer, I think that was all to it but its possible i was charged. It was 25 years ago. Definitely wasn't arrested, definitely did not go to court and thats as far I remember. I got into a lot of trouble in high school - fights and what not but other then thst one time, police were not involved. I had a kid, graduated and went to work and nothing other the traffic tickets since. The fact police were involved is what raises the question of being charged. There was 5 people fighting and we all got in trouble with school and spoke to the police as Baltimore County had just gone to zero tolerance so even though in this case I didn't start it, in view of a teacher, the police were called. Again I was the only one that 18. I have spoken at length to family members and no one remembers it with anything even close to certainty. The fact I don't remember has been the cause of much stress for me because it came down to what if whatever I put down is wrong.

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[BurkeM]

Actually not easy... lol. I got into a fight in high school and I was the only one that was 18. Nobody in my family remembers what happened. I got in trouble with school of course and spoke with a police officer, I think that was all to it but its possible i was charged. It was 25 years ago. Definitely wasn't arrested, definitely did not go to court and thats as far I remember. I got into a lot of trouble in high school - fights and what not but other then thst one time, police were not involved. I had a kid, graduated and went to work and nothing other the traffic tickets since. The fact police were involved is what raises the question of being charged. There was 5 people fighting and we all got in trouble with school and spoke to the police as Baltimore County had just gone to zero tolerance so even though in this case I didn't start it, in view of a teacher, the police were called. Again I was the only one that 18. I have spoken at length to family members and no one remembers it with anything even close to certainty. The fact I don't remember has been the cause of much stress for me because it came down to what if whatever I put down is wrong.

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In view of your recollection, it doesn’t sound like you were ever charged, arraigned, booked or cited for any violation. If you had, a summons or warrant would have been issued.

You could state exactly what you wrote here, and end your worries. If there is no record in BCPD or any court, it won’t be held against you.

 

[BigWilly]

In view of your recollection, it doesn’t sound like you were ever charged, arraigned, booked or cited for any violation. If you had, a summons or warrant would have been issued.

You could state exactly what you wrote here, and end your worries. If there is no record in BCPD or any court, it won’t be held against you.

Nothing my parents or I recollect. I would of never even thought of it if a high school friend hadn't brought up the fight a week before my training. Hadn't thought of it in 20 some odd years and crazy enough it's brought up then. My parents vaguely remembered it and I know for a fact prior to getting fingerprints for the HGP, I had gotten fingerprinted only once before when applying to Baltimore City Police department at 21. I'd rather there was a record of it and I'd have no problem putting yes as it wouldn't disqualify me but my fear was if I wasn't charged and put yes then it could create issues for me, maybe even cause for denial.

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[anfernys]

So could you be denied if a spouse was prohibited due to a Non violent felony charge?

 

[teratos]

So could you be denied if a spouse was prohibited due to a Non violent felony charge?

No

 

[lazarus]

Reckless discharge of a fire arm not in city limits. Howard county ordnance, not a state charge.

not listed as an expungable charge.

edit target shooting on private property in howard county. Only allowed on approved ranges, cop walked up on me while I was shooting. I paid a 50 buck fine and was guilty, no way to fight it.

Not even knowing your location, when I was reading your earlier post I was thinking, "I wonder if it was some stupid ordinance like 'target shooting' in HoCo or fireworks charge".

Sorry you got busted on that.